Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: How to deal with loved ones that are affected by fake news?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 53 posts

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with loved ones that are affected by fake news?

#21

Post by GRBurst »

tomklein wrote: post #2

What I did after having argued several times is to straight up let them know that this isn’t true, told one or two examples on why these arguments are fake most of the time and that if they want to find arguments against it, that they would find some. Then I stop talking about such topics with them. In my opinion, it‘s just not worth after having spent some time trying to discuss it with them. Especially when they do…

It is really difficult sometimes, because they are able to find doctors and quotes that do look very sophisticated at the beginning. Only if you dig really deep its possible to show them fallacies and as mentioned, this is really really time consuming

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with loved ones that are affected by fake news?

#22

Post by GRBurst »

proc0 wrote: post #3

What makes you so sure you have all the right answers, since you mention their arguments are hard to counter? I don't think the truth is partisan at the moment, and throughout history it's in moments like these, when people are extremely sure of the truth being partisan, that horrible things are allowed to happen. I mostly doubt when skepticism itself is demonized and made out to be the problem, and that seems to hav…

Its not that I am sure of my answers and I do respect different opinions and I even welcome skepticism - can we ever be sure about something at all? But I wish they would take my skepticism as serious as mine, but I don't feel like this is the case.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with loved ones that are affected by fake news?

#23

Post by akudha »

COVID, climate change, religion… these are topics that people are dug in, about their positions. It is hard to sway them.

Our energy is better spent on people who are on the fence, because their sources are weak (giving them better logic/sources might be enough in some cases). Also because they’re willing to listen, despite their skepticism.

Can you sway a hard core democrat or a hardcore republican to engage in constructive debate with the other side? Likely not, and even if you did, you’d end up spending an enormous amount of time and effort - which would likely be better spent on the people who are on the fence, for better ROI on your time.

Of course it sucks when the people affected by fake news are your friends and family :(

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with loved ones that are affected by fake news?

#24

Post by injb »

wil421 wrote: post #10

I just point out that I get my information from doctors and medical professionals while they get all their Covid news from Facebook posts and random people. Someone I know said their doctor told them he wouldn’t give the the vaccine if she was his sister for fear of becoming sterile. Sigh, I said it might be time to get a new doctor.

But you just said you got your information from doctors. How do you decide which doctors to believe?

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with loved ones that are affected by fake news?

#25

Post by toto444 »

I remember reading this article about Daryl Davis the black musician who converts Ku Klux Klan members ( https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/mar/18/daryl-davis-bl... ). If I'm correct one of his trick was to let people talk and ask them questions that would highlight the inconsistencies in their talk.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with loved ones that are affected by fake news?

#26

Post by kubanczyk »

As a big meta-argument, use "The Bottom Line" though experiment: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/34XxbRFe54FycoCDw/the-bottom...

(To share it with anyone you'd probably need to find a more readable version. This one has a lot of idiosyncrasies.)

Some authors decide their conclusion first and then formulate arguments later. This produces content which looks kinda rigorous on its face and it's really hard to beat, because each argument is legit when taken alone.

If you try to respond by writing a balanced version, your story has nowhere the "clarity" plus it takes 10x the time. So you respond in kind by creating an opposite message the same way as the original one was conceived, and thus the cycle completes. All fake news.

We cannot see into the author's mind, so it's not really possible to detect that dirty trick. It is a matter of trust initially, and a matter of reputation later on.

But every message which has a very clear conclusion is suspect, because if you actually gather all the arguments, they can seldom be stuffed into a nice and clear-cut result. Every message, including this one. Every author, including you and me.

All this might get your loved ones into more healthy skepticism. I wouldn't hold my breath though.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with loved ones that are affected by fake news?

#27

Post by IssDKiXeBI »

Maybe a collection of facebook profiles of people who were publicly skeptic about covid/vaccine and then suffered from the disease would be helpful.

There are quite a few posts like this on reddit, but they often lack in empathy and are simply screenshots that aren't as convincing as a page with history/photos/etc.

I'm wondering if compiling such a list online is feasible from ethical and legal stand points.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with loved ones that are affected by fake news?

#29

Post by jstx1 »

proc0 wrote: post #3

What makes you so sure you have all the right answers, since you mention their arguments are hard to counter? I don't think the truth is partisan at the moment, and throughout history it's in moments like these, when people are extremely sure of the truth being partisan, that horrible things are allowed to happen. I mostly doubt when skepticism itself is demonized and made out to be the problem, and that seems to hav…

One possiblity for those hard to counter points is unfalsifiability - https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Unfalsi...

Just because you can't immediately disprove something doesn't mean that it isn't bullshit.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with loved ones that are affected by fake news?

#30

Post by wil421 »

injb wrote: post #24
wil421 wrote: post #10

I just point out that I get my information from doctors and medical professionals while they get all their Covid news from Facebook posts and random people. Someone I know said their doctor told them he wouldn’t give the the vaccine if she was his sister for fear of becoming sterile. Sigh, I said it might be time to get a new doctor.

But you just said you got your information from doctors. How do you decide which doctors to believe?

My wife and I spoke to several docs from her OBGYN, 2 docs from my sons pediatrician about the safety of the vaccine during breast feeding, and my doctor. We also spoke to a family member who was a pregnant pediatrician who took the Pfizer vaccine early. They all agreed the vaccine was a good idea. We then looked at the CDC guidelines, my state and county’s public health department guidelines, and the information from the NIAID.

I’ve yet to find a doctor or any guidelines that say you’ll become sterile after taking the Pfizer vaccine. I’d caution against taking advice from a doc who believes there’s a risk of being sterile. Pretty sure the US and EU would’ve caught on to it already.

Post reply on HN