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Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

theregister.com

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Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#421

Post by cpuguy83 »

bspammer wrote: post #389
mleonhard wrote: post #381

> There's a standards conversion going on where we can trace the provenance of each and every layer of the image, we can start signing those layers, and with that metadata, we can start doing automated decisioning, automated reporting, automated visibility into what's been done to that image at each step of the lifecycle. Docker's CEO is being disingenuous. When you deploy a Docker container, you specify the image ID…

The fact that images are not content-addressed is very surprising to me. I just always assumed they were because… why wouldn’t they be? I bet a large proportion of other devs assumed the same.

That's because the parent comment is completely wrong.

Images have a reference (e.g. "ubuntu:20.04"), they have an ID inside docker (random string), and they have a digest.

All image data is stored by digest. Even when you fetch an image reference it is looking up the digest of that reference and fetching that digest and that digest is verified.

An image manifest contains the digests of the image config and the digest of all the layers, the image config also stores the digest of all the layers. This is how all the data is traversed from the registry.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#422

Post by cpuguy83 »

cpuguy83 wrote: post #421
bspammer wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that images are not content-addressed is very surprising to me. I just always assumed they were because… why wouldn’t they be? I bet a large proportion of other devs assumed the same.

That's because the parent comment is completely wrong. Images have a reference (e.g. "ubuntu:20.04"), they have an ID inside docker (random string), and they have a digest. All image data is stored by digest. Even when you fetch an image reference it is looking up the digest of that reference and fetching that digest and that digest is verified. An image manifest contains the digests of the image config and the diges…

I will add, once the image is on disk indeed the integrity is not verified so it can be modified after pull either maliciously or by accident.

Once pulled, the content addressed layers are extracted into the storage driver (overlay, btrfs, whatever).

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#423

Post by cpuguy83 »

mleonhard wrote: post #400
voxic11 wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are if you use the digest rather than the id.

You can specify the digest of a base image when building a new image. You cannot specify the digest of a built image when starting a container.

A built (as in `docker build && docker run`) image does not have a digest because the digests are for the tar+gzipped versions of the layers (+ the image config and manifest).

The layers are not tar+gzipped until you attempt to push them, at which point the digest is calculated.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#424

Post by Frost1x »

Sebb767 wrote: post #308
eptcyka wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

trey-jones, I apologize, but I cannot reply to you directly. The biggest showstopper for podman is that it runs entirely in userspace on Linux. Having said that, I use it as a drop-in replacement for Docker and it's only become better in the past year. This is somewhat irrelevant to the Docker Desktop product, as podman doesn't provide a nice packaged up solution, but you can use podman on Windows and Mac as long as…

> The biggest showstopper for podman is that it runs entirely in userspace on Linux. As I see it, that's the whole selling point. Need to have something with limited rights or build a container without root? Podman is the way to go.

This is what singularity did in the HPC world (amongst other handy features):

https://singularity.hpcng.org/

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#425

Post by rietta »

emptysongglass wrote: post #340
mfer wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure the whole reason for Docker Desktop is that Docker and K8s don't run natively. I mean, someone could create a Linux VM and get them running right through there. The tools exist to do this. There are even programs like minikube that can get you Kubernetes in a VM on Mac. There is something else to it that people want and that translates to Linux, I've learned. They want an easy button with an easy UX. The…

Right and when you're a corporation it cannot be overstated how important it is to coalesce around universal solutions that get up and out of the way with as few steps as possible. Handing new developers a handbook of incantations to get going is very fragile. Handing those same developers one executable with a big Go! button is much easier to get right. One example from my last job was having one shell.nix in the ro…

When you are a https://rietta.com/blog/dockerized-cost-savings/. Paying over and over again for new devs to "get set up" was devastating the budget.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#426

Post by argomo »

namdnay wrote: post #158
qeternity wrote: post #130

So many people in this thread don’t understand how enterprise decisions get made. The business license costs $21/month, probably less in reality. Do you really think that businesses are going to jeopardize the workflows of their $250k/year assets over a very core piece of software for $250/year? Any alternative has switching costs and risks. Companies will just pay this. I see so many people saying “just do these 10…

That’s assuming some kind soul in engineering management has the patience and leverage to guide this through 10 layers of purchasing, procurement, finance, legal etc… Another likely outcome is that it’s “easier” for teams to switch to another tool (easier in that at least they’re not waiting on a third party for approval) and everyone loses a lot of time Big corporations are not the most efficient beasts for this kin…

Heh heh... so true it hurts. Why spend 3 years pushing it past risks reviews and oversight committees when you could just write a crappy version that does what you need?

Legal alone will spend months looking at run-of-the-mill software contacts trying to negotiate absurd concessions from vendors in situations where they clearly have no bargaining power.

We can spend a lot of money on Oracle for their profoundly obtuse products though.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#427

Post by dang »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #313
raman162 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shameful may have been a harsh word , disappointing is more appropriate. The disappointing part is that a product that was once free and distributed in abundance is now requiring licensing starting immediately for small businesses. There is a transition gap but the policy is effective starting today. There were no added features of value, it was just a random change of price from nothing to something. I think the new…

The only thing you’re saying here is that you don’t recognize its value and you don’t want to pay for it. No, wait, you don’t want businesses —fully capable organizations who can pay—to pay for it. You should be ashamed. There’s nothing random about it. A tech business is finally realizing giving products away for free isn’t a business. What a surprise. > Now that they have the huge user base, they're in a good posit…

If you continue to break the site guidelines like this, we will ban you. We've warned you multiple times before, and this is seriously not cool—regardless of how right you are or feel you are.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#428

Post by qeternity »

roguecoder wrote: post #388
qeternity wrote: post #130

So many people in this thread don’t understand how enterprise decisions get made. The business license costs $21/month, probably less in reality. Do you really think that businesses are going to jeopardize the workflows of their $250k/year assets over a very core piece of software for $250/year? Any alternative has switching costs and risks. Companies will just pay this. I see so many people saying “just do these 10…

That price is per person, not total. The highest total I've heard so far is going to cost that company $108k a month, for a development tool. VCs are shooting themselves in the foot here: it is very obvious that we should never adopt any technical tool backed by VC, because they will eventually try to make us an offer we can't refuse and then go out of business shortly thereafter when their extortion attempt doesn't…

> That price is per person, not total. The highest total I've heard so far is going to cost that company $108k a month, for a development tool.

Lol yes, I know. My point was the cost of meatware is 3 orders of magnitude greater than the software, and likely less at scale.

$100k/mo would mean 5,000 devs. I highly doubt a company with overheads near/in excess of a billion dollars/year is going to sweat a $1m expense for core infra like Docker.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#429

Post by sixothree »

naikrovek wrote: post #360
sixothree wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Docker for Windows isn't particularly stellar either. For instance, you have to actually log in to a machine to have a docker image running. Additionally only one user on a machine can run the host application at any given time. I have no idea how this is popular.

That isn't the case on Windows Server, and on Windows Desktop SKUs, having a logged in user is normal and expected.

Actually I’m talking about windows server. Do you have any guides? Because when I try to open the docker GUI it kicks everyone out.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#430

Post by dang »

qeternity wrote: post #359
Cacti wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lol obviously you’ve never worked in a giant bureaucratic corporation.

Lol obviously you’ve never risen to a level of management in a giant corporation. It’s ok. Just keep telling yourself you’re smarter than everyone else.

Please don't respond to a bad comment by breaking the site guidelines yourself. Not cool.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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