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Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)

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Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)

#111

Post by akomtu »

tenpies wrote: post #66
adrianb wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, religion offers simple ways to classify actions as good or bad. Following the church teachings or priest's guidance was enough to make an individual confident they are a good person, doing good things. Meanwhile, in real life, everything is complex, few things are clearly good or bad, everything has advantages and disadvantages. People need a simple compass to distinguish good and bad. It seems the "politica…

> I agree, religion offers simple ways to classify actions as good or bad. Following the church teachings or priest's guidance was enough to make an individual confident they are a good person, doing good things. The unfortunate thing is that this sums up the current state of religious education because we've had a generation that was poorly taught, who then taught the next generation. Now the generation we are raisi…

With a bit more discovery, the Catholic church apoears as the probably biggest corporation today with its unscrupulous desire for power. There are all sorts of people and stuff going on in that organisation: from literal saints (in the past) to rather evil types, from lithurgy to ceremonial magic and dark rituals. But the church is adept at making the illusion of united front. Its biggest secret is perhaps the history it had erased but had kept records of. So I wouldnt take its moral code any more seriously than a corporate policy. The only thing of value in that code is the basic rules like "do to others what you would do to yourself", but these rules werent invented by the church.

Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)

#112

Post by AmericanChopper »

larksimian wrote: post #44
AmericanChopper wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m always a bit entertained by people who claim they want to express a non-biased view of partisan dynamics, and then proceed to express something that is a perfect representation of the fundamental attribution error. Personally I think the primary contention that exists between the dogma of the left and the right is just the contention between collectivism and individualism. But outliers aside, I don’t think you en…

I guess you got downvoted for both-sidesing it(Upvoted, btw :D)? I mean both parties do quite suck, even though I still think the GOP is actively harmful, while the Democratic party has good ideas that it fails to build on. The actual party policies only really diverge on social issues. Economic policy consensus has been corporatist since the Reagan years. The main difference is the democrats are willing to blast out…

I made the distinction between dogma and policy because I don’t think the two are very strongly connected. I think there are localised outliers like California and Texas, where the ideological differences are more effectively implemented in policy and legislation. But generally speaking, I don’t think you get a substantially different government when one party is elected over the other. The dogma however is substantially different. It’s just that speaking differently doesn’t necessarily translate to acting differently.

I think the reason I’m downvoted (and that my comments would generally meet disapproval in most contexts) is due to the nature of tribalist politics. A political tribalist believes that we are good and they are bad. If our policies fail it’s because of reasons other than our policies being bad, if their policies fail it’s because they were intentionally designed to cause harm. They are the ones behaving tribalistically, while we are open minded and accepting.

A core element of the tribalistic psychology is that you and your team aren’t the ones perpetuating it. Tribalism is bad, and they are the source of it. It is an archetypal example of the fundamental attribution error, and a tribalistic conservative is just as likely to downvote you for suggesting that as a tribalistic liberal is.

Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)

#113

Post by grillvogel »

mothsonasloth wrote: post #3

My 2 pennies: Living in a secular society where religion plays a reduced part on the individual, compared with 50 years ago. People now fill the gaps with other banners to fly and differentiate themselves with.

it's truly strange. now people define themselves by which corporations are their favorite and which funkopops they own

Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)

#114

Post by newbie2020 »

nostrademons wrote: post #29
mothsonasloth wrote: post #3

My 2 pennies: Living in a secular society where religion plays a reduced part on the individual, compared with 50 years ago. People now fill the gaps with other banners to fly and differentiate themselves with.

Also don't forget the role of economic growth & opportunity. America is a country where millions of immigrants have put aside their cultural differences for the pursuit of money. Note that in areas where there is still a reasonable chance of getting rich - coastal California, for example, or NYC - people are still willing to put aside their differences to get rich. At least among the people who are actually getting r…

The AAPI hate crimes are not white-on-Asian, btw. In California, there generally isn’t much tension between the two groups

Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)

#115

Post by AnimalMuppet »

pessimizer wrote: post #69

This would be a good thing if it were true. Politics is not a product where your choice of whether to consume the red, blue, or green thing is an irrelevant expression of your personality or style. It's always life or death, and that fact is disguised when it doesn't mean your life or death. This survey is also corrupted by self-reporting. People like to pretend that they're more tolerant than they are (especially wh…

> You might find a higher percentage of mixed Democrat/Republican relationships 50 years ago (maybe), but if that number has dropped, that's also an improvement.... It means that society is becoming more supportive of people trying to escape their tribal affiliations.

Fewer cross-political-party marriages mean that we're becoming more supportive of people trying to escape their tribal affiliations? Not if you count Red/Blue as one of the tribal affiliations, it doesn't...

Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)

#116

Post by AnimalMuppet »

tristor wrote: post #55

Counter-intuitively, my parents have stayed happily married for a very long time and my dad is significantly more conservative than my mom (although my mom has become more "conservative" in the current decade in reaction to how extreme rhetoric on the left has become in the US). I am about to propose to my long-time partner who is significantly more to the left than I am (we are both to the left, I'm barely left of c…

Yes, and it's more than just politics. In any marriage, someone will be more conservative, and someone will be more liberal. But also, someone will be more fiscally conservative, and someone more willing/eager to spend. Someone will be more of a morning person, and the other more of a night owl. Someone will be more extroverted and social, and the other more of an introvert. Someone will be more athletic and outdoorsy, and the other more of a couch potato.

Those differences exist. They're going to hit your relationship, because they hit every relationship. Can the two of you deal with them (all of them) in a reasonable and healthy manner, or not?

Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)

#117

Post by onionisafruit »

peterburkimsher wrote: post #13
irjustin wrote: post #4

This was me circa 2012-2013. I hadn't realized it yet, but was quite liberal minded compared to my fellow church mates. I tried talking to someone who is rather politically conservative (she eventually ran for office). In our conversations, I just kept finding myself thinking... that's not how I view that... at all. Nothing became of the relationship, but doubt it would have maintained anyway. For me, it was the firs…

It's good to have a variety of friends from different perspectives, so that the peer pressure can balance a little. I agree that for relationship commitments, it's often a more enjoyable to find someone with compatible views rather than just what one community expects from you. In my case, I decided it would be a good learning experience to date a non-Christian whose world view and travel experience is more suitable…

My favorite is where the people are encouraging and the sermon is under ten minutes.

Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)

#118

Post by vmception »

newbie2020 wrote: post #114
nostrademons wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also don't forget the role of economic growth & opportunity. America is a country where millions of immigrants have put aside their cultural differences for the pursuit of money. Note that in areas where there is still a reasonable chance of getting rich - coastal California, for example, or NYC - people are still willing to put aside their differences to get rich. At least among the people who are actually getting r…

The AAPI hate crimes are not white-on-Asian, btw. In California, there generally isn’t much tension between the two groups

There isn't any tension between the black people and asian populations either. There isn't even much overlap between the two populations. People are trying to push a narrative that one riot in LA and one event in Crown Heights, both 30 years ago, are representative of a continent wide consensus, validated by individuals committing crimes now. Silly. Its so silly that it pretty much shows how segregated the two groups are.

Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)

#119

Post by AnimalMuppet »

jdsleppy wrote: post #50
Claudus wrote: post #2

My perception of the mindset of the typical liberal in the past was that it was more about making change for the benefit of everyone in the country (don’t worry conservatives , this will work out for the best). Now it is more about making change that benefits some at the expense of others (screw you conservatives). In order to push political agendas like this, political opposition needs to be more negatively portraye…

The big ticket, agreed upon progressive priorities are still for the benefit of all: Green New Deal, Medicare for all, accessible higher education. I find it more difficult to find policies for the common good coming from conservatives these days. Does anyone have examples?

The (fiscal) conservative view of those items is that paying for them is going to create poverty, or at least a lot of people being less well off because of the taxes. (And that Modern Monetary Theory is wishful thinking that doesn't work in reality.)

The conservatives could be wrong. But they aren't just hard-hearted Scrooge McDuck types who don't want to pay for something that will benefit the poors.

Re: Partisan attachment: How politics is changing dating and relationships (2020)

#120

Post by bandyaboot »

logicchains wrote: post #89
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be more convincing if Catholics - actually religious people in general - were known for exemplary morals. That's very much not the case. Religion is demonstrably useless when it comes to practical morality, because it's not in any sense a coherent and stable moral system. It's really about crafting individual and tribal justifications for arbitrary behaviours supported by various power hierarchies. Some ma…

> This would be more convincing if Catholics - actually religious people in general - were known for exemplary morals. I'm not sure how you'd propose to measure that, but in terms of charitable giving at least religious people have been found to give significantly more: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/oct/30/religious-p...

If you were trying to use charitable giving as a measure of morality, you’d have to somehow control for the collection plate effect which is more about response to peer pressure than morality.
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