Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies • Hacker News Board

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#311

Post by mikl » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 8:33 PM UTC

emptysongglass wrote: post #197

mfer wrote: post #61

Rancher Desktop is an open source container management and Kubernetes desktop app. https://rancherdesktop.io/ Disclosure: I work on Rancher Desktop. Feedback welcome.

You guys (by you guys I mean you and Docker, Inc) would do yourselves a huge favor not spiting the Linux devs who invented the technologies you build your tools on. Where's the Linux version? Give it to me in Snap, AppImage, Flatpak, deb, or rpm, whatever you want. Just offer something. We'll take care of the rest.

The whole reason this (and Docker Desktop) are used is that Docker and K8s does not run natively on macOS and Windows.

If you’re using Linux already, most of this stuff is as useful as nipples on a breastplate. You could theoretically run an emptied out husk of the app on Linux, but there are much better tools for working with the tools directly.

So I’d be greatly surprised if any Linux kernel hackers are miffed about this.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#312

Post by sokoloff » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 8:35 PM UTC

Johnny555 wrote: post #296

jdwithit wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This poster has clearly worked at the same kind of companies I have. Plenty of them would gladly burn 10x what it would cost to just buy the damn license on engineering man-hours switching something that's inferior but free. Because it doesn't show up as an expense on the annual budget. The concept of opportunity cost is completely lost on a lot of business leaders.

A big advantage of using free open source software is that the licensing prices will never increase because the company needs a new revenue stream to support its business model. Docker Desktop was free, now it's $21/month, what will it cost next year when Docker needs more money?

That depends on how many frogs contentedly stay in the pot.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#313

Post by andrewmcwatters » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 8:35 PM UTC

raman162 wrote: post #294

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shameful? What's shameful about it? Software entitlement is outrageous. It's the only field where people expect professionals to keep doling out labor for free and then complain about the free stuff. If it isn't already abundantly clear to you: free software isn't sustainable. It's built on the backs of people who provide it for whatever reason they choose. This be a beggar so I can continue to have free stuff mental…

Shameful may have been a harsh word , disappointing is more appropriate. The disappointing part is that a product that was once free and distributed in abundance is now requiring licensing starting immediately for small businesses. There is a transition gap but the policy is effective starting today. There were no added features of value, it was just a random change of price from nothing to something. I think the new…

The only thing you’re saying here is that you don’t recognize its value and you don’t want to pay for it. No, wait, you don’t want businesses—fully capable organizations who can pay—to pay for it.

You should be ashamed.

There’s nothing random about it. A tech business is finally realizing giving products away for free isn’t a business. What a surprise.

> Now that they have the huge user base, they're in a good position to dictate terms in their favour whether we like it or not.

No one is forcing you to use docker. Grow up.

Better yet, you try building a product, giving it away to choosing beggar developers, and figure out how to run a business where you pay six-figure engineering salaries to qualified employees off the cash flow of “donations.” What a joke.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#314

Post by kcb » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 8:37 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #163

cyral wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very accurate for a lot of companies like this lately. Consider it coined.

Nah, newer generations rediscovering the concept of shareware and trial/demo versions.

Not really. Shareware, Trials, Demos all come with the expectation that if you want to utilize them fully you will eventually need to pay.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#315

Post by tunesmith » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 8:38 PM UTC

ben7799 wrote: post #147

We use Docker Desktop for the Mac at work. (Large company) Docker for Mac absolutely sucks. If they’re going to force everyone to pay they better start fixing bugs. They recently stopped allowing skipping a release unless you pay, and then promptly shipped a point release with a showstopper bug. I literally asked IT for a Linux VM/Cloud machine yesterday for development because my Mac is dead in the water due to a bu…

Our team uses it too, but we don't even use the UI - it's just to get the daemon started on startup. Is there a way to do this easily on the Mac without using Docker Desktop?

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#316

Post by sokoloff » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 8:38 PM UTC

treeman79 wrote: post #212

jdwithit wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This poster has clearly worked at the same kind of companies I have. Plenty of them would gladly burn 10x what it would cost to just buy the damn license on engineering man-hours switching something that's inferior but free. Because it doesn't show up as an expense on the annual budget. The concept of opportunity cost is completely lost on a lot of business leaders.

I’ve seen companies burn half a million in developer time to save 10k or less several times. Oh some JavaScript graphing library is expensive. Let’s roll our own! Heroku meets our needs 100% let’s spend millions to switch to K8 and have a much worse experience.

The 4 hours I spent learning the basics of d3 and then couple hours a night for a few weeks working through examples (of others and of my own design) really gave me a powerful new tool for charting applications. Rolling your own is difficult to justify, but "learn and use d3 (BSD licensed)" seems an entirely reasonable alternative to a high-priced commercial offering.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#317

Post by staticassertion » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 8:41 PM UTC

namdnay wrote: post #158

qeternity wrote: post #130

So many people in this thread don’t understand how enterprise decisions get made. The business license costs $21/month, probably less in reality. Do you really think that businesses are going to jeopardize the workflows of their $250k/year assets over a very core piece of software for $250/year? Any alternative has switching costs and risks. Companies will just pay this. I see so many people saying “just do these 10…

That’s assuming some kind soul in engineering management has the patience and leverage to guide this through 10 layers of purchasing, procurement, finance, legal etc… Another likely outcome is that it’s “easier” for teams to switch to another tool (easier in that at least they’re not waiting on a third party for approval) and everyone loses a lot of time Big corporations are not the most efficient beasts for this kin…

I really doubt that procurement is going to be harder than switching a technology out.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#318

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 8:42 PM UTC

matsemann wrote: post #231

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found Docker Desktop to be equally awful with Windows. You'd think they'd care about giant swathes of the market like that.

Wish they fixed the issue where it uses all available RAM even when running no containers yet.

When running no containers? I've found that it's a problem when one is running (the solution to that is here[1]), but I've not experienced it when nothing is running.

[1] https://blog.simonpeterdebbarma.com/2020-04-memory-and-wsl/

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#319

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 8:43 PM UTC

Ansil849 wrote: post #194

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found Docker Desktop to be equally awful with Windows. You'd think they'd care about giant swathes of the market like that.

> I've found Docker Desktop to be equally awful with Windows. You'd think they'd care about giant swathes of the market like that. The fact that they don't care, and yet you (or if not you, others) still use it, succinctly explains why they do not care. If they have a shitty, buggy client for Mac/Windows, and people complain about it but still use it, then they have no incentive to care.

Actually, I did like jandrese did, and got our solutions out of docker.

Re: Docker Desktop no longer free for large companies

#320

Post by hbn » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 8:44 PM UTC

coding123 wrote: post #106

As weird as it might seem, Microsoft would probably be the best company to acquire Docker at this point. They could probably turn this around a bit into a free with Windows, pay for Linux (at the 250 employee level - possibly up the employee count to 500 though).

> free with Windows, pay for Linux

Isn't Docker Desktop (i.e. the part being sold) just a client that sets up a Linux VM to run the free part?