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Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

tutanota.com

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Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#51

Post by crowbahr »

elric wrote: post #35
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the police have a warrant to watch you, then, no. But that is as it should be. As long as there is correct judicial oversight of these capabilities, then this is the correct way for things to be. Nobody should have an expectation of being able to conduct criminal business without surveillance. The issue comes in when the justice system is not providing correct oversight for this capability. That is wrong and shoul…

> If the police have a warrant to watch you, then, no. But that is as it should be. Is it? Any government could make $thing illegal tomorrow. Anyone associated with $thing could then be watched and imprisoned. With judicial oversight. Some possible values from $thing taken from history: being gay, (not) being christian, being a pacifist, being poor/homeless The above have all been persecuted in the past. Sometimes in…

Yes because societies are built on rules and enforcement of the societal contract has always come, in some measure, by the government's ability to enforce the basically decent behavior that the majority wants.

The fact that the majority has often historically been in the wrong doesn't mean that we throw the baby out with the bathwater and get rid of enforcement of the laws: Anarchy is not preferable to a well ordered peaceful society.

Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#53

Post by trutannus »

majormajor wrote: post #39
maerF0x0 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democracy leads to dumb laws. It's a tyranny of the bottom 51%ile. I say this a little tongue in cheek, but it's a real problem I've yet to understand -- how can an outlier intelligent person thrive in a system that caters to the masses? The masses have an incentive to drain any marginal value out of the intelligent, and have the political power to do so. Edit: @majormajor sorry HN wont let me reply. The reason would…

Why would the bottom 51% have more influence than the top 51% or the middle 25-76% or whatever other random fraction you pull out of your butt?

>Why would the bottom 51% have more influence than the top 51%

51 + 51 = 102%

The bottom 51% have more influence than the top 49% because one is a majority. There is your answer.

Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#54

Post by asien »

Reminds me of anti-free speech laws that was almost passed in France.

It was designed to help fight « hate speech ».

It enable police to remove literally ANY content from the interne t as long as it was « hateful » of course there is no legal definition of hateful.

I think similar laws have been passed in Belgium and Germany.

I find it funny that has economic growth from the post war era is slowing down and climate change is accelerating our fundamentals rights and freedom are slowly being taken away from us ,bits by bits with more or less the same laws everywhere.

Very strange.

Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#55

Post by mLuby »

sweettea wrote: post #16
TheChaplain wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vote. Or be more active in politics.

Voting is how this mess started... how is voting harder going to fix what voting created? Nothing short of a common national ethos of trust in an almost unremovable leader can solve this problem. A leader who can listen to experts and make a choice, even if unpopular, without fear of next election and without the need to aggrandize more power and wealth.

"Fear of the next election" is one of the few things that keeps elected leaders in line.

You want a wise, just dictator for life, and maybe you luck out and get one who reigns beneficently for a few decades, but who's to say their successor will be as good, or the next one, and on and on until you inevitably get a Stalin.

Put another way: if the leader dies, and heir A spends all their effort on ruling effectively, and heir B spends all their effort on beating heir A to the throne, how can heir A succeed? You'd need metrics for being a good ruler which are immune to Goodhart's Law.

Given that—over time—power inevitably centralizes and inevitably is abused, those tendencies must be counterbalanced; or else power must be regularly reset by more crude means.

Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#57

Post by hughrr »

yakz wrote: post #34

I guess my days as a paying customer of FastMail are coming to an end. I don’t expect to ever become a legitimate target of Australian law enforcement, but there is always abuse.

Well fuck I just moved to Fastmail. Who else is out there?

And no I’m not self hosting.

Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#58

Post by cryptonector »

908B64B197 wrote: post #7
ghoda wrote: post #2

I don't know where this is going. Perhaps prepping for the global warming riots. Is there a way out of surveillance?

> Is there a way out of surveillance? Vote with your feet. Divest out of Australia. Make sure there's a brain drain out of the country.

Leaving Australia is currently very difficult for Australians in Australia even if they reside abroad. But if one could leave, where should they go to?

Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours

#60

Post by ccn0p »

cfcfcf wrote: post #36
nemo44x wrote: post #26

It's a good thing everyone surrendered their firearms to this same government. Once they know you can't resist anything they can do anything to you. I'm guessing NZ is next now that they've confiscated nearly every firearm they could.

Yes. If we had our firearms we could shoot back. Pew pew!

granted we are in a very different place today in terms of warfare technology, history has shown that firing back is what has shaped the world we live in today.
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