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The Winners of Remote Work

nytimes.com

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Re: The Winners of Remote Work

#51

Post by wintermutestwin »

bennysomething wrote: post #11

This is partly why I keep thinking I should have become an electrician or a carpenter: the only real competition is local, there is always demand in cities. I knew a very wealthy electrician who started his own business and it seems to be a common path. Unlike programming where the common path is work for someone else and burn out.

As someone who grew up on construction sites before escaping to cushy office work, I can tell you that there are a lot of negatives that many don't consider when romanticizing the trades. Physical work means physical risks: From injuries to long term issues with knees, backs and shoulders. From constant exposure to toxic materials to the ever enjoyable dust boogers.

There's a reason that tradespeople get paid what they do. (and IMO, it is still very underpaid)

Re: The Winners of Remote Work

#52

Post by TremendousJudge »

stainforth wrote: post #34
booleandilemma wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never too late to switch. Maybe this remote working trend will lead to outsourcing of programmers and we’ll see a rise of electrician and carpenter bootcamps as people flee software development. You’ll just be ahead of the curve.

Or be the one that sells the bootcamps, or even the one that sells a prebuilt platform that creates bootcamps to those that are selling the bootcamps. Picks and shovels so to speak. But wait now you're developing software again.

That's not developing software, that's selling it.

Re: The Winners of Remote Work

#53

Post by avnigo »

> Google [...] would reduce the pay of those who choose to work remotely or move farther from the office. Avoiding the office saves employees money — in commuting costs, for example

I don't understand the reasoning behind this, and I've seen it being used again and again. Employees are compensated on the work they provide during work hours, and only rarely do companies provide compensation to specifically accommodate for commutes, usually done as an incentive for people with costly commutes.

The concern most companies have has to be more about the real estate play, and how the offices they have paid for or are renting won't be getting as much use. Other than that, in terms of energy usage, heating/cooling, etc., I would imagine the cost savings of having people work remotely are considerable.

If anything, as I see it, work from home employees should be compensated for the costs of working from home, which include higher utility expenses, or even office furniture to enable their work — some companies have paid stipends for home office setups, for example.

I think, long term, companies may have to rethink how they set up their offices so not as much cost is sunk in real estate, so much so that they risk penalizing employees who would be saving them money otherwise, if it weren't for the existing office-centric solution.

Re: The Winners of Remote Work

#54

Post by m0llusk »

blakesterz wrote: post #2

https://archive.is/Vltrp They attempt to answer "How will this affect the average tech worker?" ... with ... "In June, Google told rank-and-file employees it would reduce the pay of those who choose to work remotely or move farther from the office." and they then say "Should this worry the most in-demand engineers and product management? Probably not." They finish with "But in the long term, remote work’s promise is…

Google is a really bad point of normalization for remote work metrics. Google has consistently emphasized working together in offices as a central strategy and has spent vast amounts on physical facilities and also transportation infrastructure such as their own bus lines in order to support all of this. Even other large companies cannot compete with this level of emphasis on office space.

Re: The Winners of Remote Work

#55

Post by pc86 »

mlac wrote: post #43
A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #14

The whole thing is complicated and companies do, eventually, adjust. Anecdote. I am in process of looking for a full time remote since my mega boss decided that hybrid is good enough for me and no amount of paperwork could convince her otherwise. Right now I am remote until delta dies off or HR changes its mind. I told no to recruiter 2 weeks ago, because the job was not remote. Just today it seems the company receiv…

I really do think the “old guard” has the most to lose from commercial real estate investments. Think about who sits on the board for a major company… It’s owners and executives from commercial real estate firms. There is a ton of money around commercial real estate, so letting it all just collapse (or losing even 10% of that market) is billions of dollars shifted around the economy. Most “normal” people who are work…

What evidence do you have that major companies' boards are filled with "executives from commercial real estate firms?"

Re: The Winners of Remote Work

#56

Post by pc86 »

luffapi wrote: post #16
eric4smith wrote: post #3

The only winners of remote work will be those who are self disciplined enough to get work done without outside supervision or motivation. That goes for every single field that does remote work - learning, teaching, Knowledge work etc. But let’s be honest - some people need the motivation of a workplace — and that’s ok! We are all different. Im somewhere in the middle… love working from home but it’s easy to get distr…

> love working from home but it’s easy to get distracted with side projects, feeding birds, germinating seeds etc. For programmers at least “productivity” comes from writing leveragable code, not by working more hours. Watching birds, gardening and generally being relaxed and rested will increase the quality of the code you write. It may even allow you to envision solutions impossible to come up with under the daily…

There are also plenty of programmers who are just lazy and don't want to work a lot. Check out any of the dozens (hundreds?) of comments on Blind of people working 15, 20, 25 hours a week. Total.

"I'm sitting on my porch drinking a beer and watching birds but trust me I'm totally working right now" doesn't take you very far.

Re: The Winners of Remote Work

#57

Post by pc86 »

SonOfKyuss wrote: post #30
pvm3 wrote: post #22

The Winners of Remote Work don't live in the United States. The pandemic has accelerated globalization.

Working parents in the US have definitely benefited from the flexibility that comes with remote work as well.

Only to the extent that schools and daycares are still open.

Re: The Winners of Remote Work

#58

Post by quadrifoliate »

ThePadawan wrote: post #50
ghaff wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California to Europe is tough for many things. I work US East Coast timezone and collaborate a lot with Europe--but that feels like it's getting near the limit for any regular synchronous activity unless one side or the other starts to work atypical hours.

I do totally get it. I only take an issue with the (maybe unintentional) duplicity of pretending that "remote work in the continental US" can only mean "remote work".

I have seen many European companies as well who do this unintentional duplicity of "remote" meaning "anywhere in the EU/EEA".

In addition to the obvious time zone constraints, I think payroll taxes and such are a major regulatory boundary that you need to cross in addition to having "all your shit together" as one of the top comments puts it.

Re: The Winners of Remote Work

#59

Post by tonyedgecombe »

avnigo wrote: post #53

> Google [...] would reduce the pay of those who choose to work remotely or move farther from the office. Avoiding the office saves employees money — in commuting costs, for example I don't understand the reasoning behind this, and I've seen it being used again and again. Employees are compensated on the work they provide during work hours, and only rarely do companies provide compensation to specifically accommodate…

>I don't understand the reasoning behind this, and I've seen it being used again and again.

They do it because if you won't accept a 20% cut to work out in the sticks then there are plenty of other good people who will.

It's got nothing to do with the length of your commute or the cost of unused offices or even the value you provide (as long as that covers your wages).

They can do this for exactly the same reason they only need to pay a cleaner minimum wage. That is there is more than enough supply to meet the demand.

Re: The Winners of Remote Work

#60

Post by raverbashing »

wintermutestwin wrote: post #51
bennysomething wrote: post #11

This is partly why I keep thinking I should have become an electrician or a carpenter: the only real competition is local, there is always demand in cities. I knew a very wealthy electrician who started his own business and it seems to be a common path. Unlike programming where the common path is work for someone else and burn out.

As someone who grew up on construction sites before escaping to cushy office work, I can tell you that there are a lot of negatives that many don't consider when romanticizing the trades. Physical work means physical risks: From injuries to long term issues with knees, backs and shoulders. From constant exposure to toxic materials to the ever enjoyable dust boogers. There's a reason that tradespeople get paid what th…

Correct

Electricians have to work in less than desirable conditions (dusty attics, outdoors, etc). Most of the material is your responsibility.

Accidents can and do happen. The days where you are less than 100% but you would be able to WFH don't exist.

Think it's annoying to plug a network cable under your desk? It's like that but 7hrs per day or more.

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