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Toxic ‘forever chemicals’ contaminate indoor air at worrying levels

theguardian.com

41–50 of 151 posts

Re: Toxic ‘forever chemicals’ contaminate indoor air at worrying levels

#41
,,cleaning,, products, even dish and hand soap

new furniture and clothes

any sort of spray or solvent

...

read the ingredients if available

avoid if it smells synthetic

avoid places where you encounter them

...

edit: for the downvoters, try googling "indoor air pollution voc"

example: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200909-why-indoor-air-p...

Re: Toxic ‘forever chemicals’ contaminate indoor air at worrying levels

#42
post #40

The problem is not PFAS. It is extreme regulatory capture that got us to the this point. Even if we ban PFAS tomorrow, there are other alternatives that will be used and another 2 decades of lies and cover ups before we find out what harm those chemicals have. Example: look at what happened when BPAs harms became known. Manufacturers switched to using any of the other 40 chemicals in the same bisphenol family (BPS, e…

> from "safe until proven otherwise" to "unsafe until (independently) proven safe"

That’s about how the EU does it.

Re: Toxic ‘forever chemicals’ contaminate indoor air at worrying levels

#43
post #39
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really strange - I’m in Germany and I hear for the first time that underwear is treated like this. None of the brand I wear (HOM) seem to be and I don’t remember that being mentioned on any pack of underwear I purchased the last 40 years. Is it an US thing? (and yes, I’m posting about my underwear on hacker news. weird.)

It is strange! It's a recent thing in the US, yes. Probably in the past 4-5 years nearly all major brands put some sort of special chemical that gives it 'moisture wicking' (usually in partnership with Dow or 3M).

Maybe it’s only in sports apparel over here?

Re: Toxic ‘forever chemicals’ contaminate indoor air at worrying levels

#44
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no mobile PFAS chemicals in nonstick cookware. Nonstick coatings are made from PTFE, which is a completely inert polymer that cannot be broken down into mobile components unless it's overheated. The fluorinated chemicals used in the manufacture of the coatings (largely surfactants) are completely removed when the coating is baked on, and they have to be or else the coating would fail. PTFE is used in medica…

People "overheat" their cookware all the time. Do you know anyone who measures the temp of the surface of their cookware? Teflon and nonstick coatings kill birds (house pets) when overheated. A nonstick pan in the oven to catch the drippings from your chicken baking at 400 or 425 can kill your parrot quickly. A nonstick wok left unattended for a few minutes during a high-heat stir fry easily reaches 400, enough to ki…

Cast iron pans are wonderful. I inherited one that was purchased originally in 1929. It's used every day or two to cook eggs for breakfast, and as I've found over the years butter is fantastic for keeping the seasoning in great shape. It's more non-stick than teflon, just a little shake is enough to send my eggs sliding to the other side of the pan. All it takes is discipline.

Best part is, this same pan will probably live well beyond 100 years. Possibly 150 or more. How many household items last that long? This is what we've lost with our culture's planned obsolescence, products that last for generations. It my have been expensive back then, but that was the last person in my family to buy this type of cookware. Safe, long lasting products isn't an innovation, it's a very welcomed regression.

Re: Toxic ‘forever chemicals’ contaminate indoor air at worrying levels

#45
I'm designing a wearable device, and I'm looking for resistant materials, different from metals, that are safe to use on the skin. According to Wikipedia PTFE (teflon) is not harmful. Could someone recommend materials to protect the electronics from sweat/dirt and the skin from the device silicone?

Re: Toxic ‘forever chemicals’ contaminate indoor air at worrying levels

#46
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no mobile PFAS chemicals in nonstick cookware. Nonstick coatings are made from PTFE, which is a completely inert polymer that cannot be broken down into mobile components unless it's overheated. The fluorinated chemicals used in the manufacture of the coatings (largely surfactants) are completely removed when the coating is baked on, and they have to be or else the coating would fail. PTFE is used in medica…

People "overheat" their cookware all the time. Do you know anyone who measures the temp of the surface of their cookware? Teflon and nonstick coatings kill birds (house pets) when overheated. A nonstick pan in the oven to catch the drippings from your chicken baking at 400 or 425 can kill your parrot quickly. A nonstick wok left unattended for a few minutes during a high-heat stir fry easily reaches 400, enough to ki…

I was maybe (mis)remembering studies that showed the pans had to be heated to a high-temperature relatively fast (in the order of under a second) for the off-gassing to occur, but I couldn't find that yet. I did find some interesting information about the dangers at different temperatures [1] and common cooking temperatures[2]. Without finding that study about quickly heating being necessary, they seem to corroborate your point.

[1] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11356-017-0095-y/...

[2] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11356-017-0095-y/...

Re: Toxic ‘forever chemicals’ contaminate indoor air at worrying levels

#48
post #16

California law TB117 required fire retardant foam until 2015 so a lot of couches have PFAS. This is an example of creating a problem by trying to avoiding another. Of course, this is not to single out CA as this is a global problem. Could be wrong but it seems like the general rule is that manufacturers are allowed to "experiment in public" when it comes to chemical science. PFAS alternatives are already in the wild…

> HEPA filters This is probably the most important. If you work from home, it might be prudent to at least have a one-room HEPA filter in your home office.

I have in furnance airflow and also one in bedroom.

Re: Toxic ‘forever chemicals’ contaminate indoor air at worrying levels

#49
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no mobile PFAS chemicals in nonstick cookware. Nonstick coatings are made from PTFE, which is a completely inert polymer that cannot be broken down into mobile components unless it's overheated. The fluorinated chemicals used in the manufacture of the coatings (largely surfactants) are completely removed when the coating is baked on, and they have to be or else the coating would fail. PTFE is used in medica…

People "overheat" their cookware all the time. Do you know anyone who measures the temp of the surface of their cookware? Teflon and nonstick coatings kill birds (house pets) when overheated. A nonstick pan in the oven to catch the drippings from your chicken baking at 400 or 425 can kill your parrot quickly. A nonstick wok left unattended for a few minutes during a high-heat stir fry easily reaches 400, enough to ki…

>Do you know anyone who measures the temp of the surface of their cookware?

They don't need to, because the oil is going to start smoking before the coating stacks degrading.

>And as another poster has noted, those coatings always start flaking off.

That doesn't really matter because the coating itself is inert.

Re: Toxic ‘forever chemicals’ contaminate indoor air at worrying levels

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no mobile PFAS chemicals in nonstick cookware. Nonstick coatings are made from PTFE, which is a completely inert polymer that cannot be broken down into mobile components unless it's overheated. The fluorinated chemicals used in the manufacture of the coatings (largely surfactants) are completely removed when the coating is baked on, and they have to be or else the coating would fail. PTFE is used in medica…

There aren't any long term studies comparing people who cook with non-stick vs stainless or cast iron, so we can only guess about long term and population level effects based on limited information. I personally would not take the risk given the benefit is just a pan that things stick to less. Medical uses are more justifiable.

>I personally would not take the risk given the benefit is just a pan that things stick to less.

Being able to use less cooking oils is a material benefit, especially considering the obesity rates we see in the developed world.

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