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A Compass for the Politics of Collapse

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Re: A Compass for the Politics of Collapse

#171

Post by anemoiac »

mbrodersen wrote: post #155
Manuel_D wrote: post #69

I once encountered a reddit user vocally insisting in a regional subreddit that industrialized society would collapse in the next 10-20 years. I poked around his comment history and it was non-stop commenting in /r/collapse pondering the kind of collapse that would happen, theories as to what would trigger it, and plans for how they would somehow survive and turn it into a utopian society for themselves. Like 9 month…

Completely agree. It is actually very hard to collapse a modern Western society. It is too large, too complex, and have millions of people working to stabilise/fix problems.

For the collapse community, that complexity is viewed as a major vulnerability. A classic text in their lexicon is anthropologist Joseph Tainter’s “The Collapse of Complex Societies,” which discusses complexity’s role in collapse (the TL;DR is that diminishing marginal returns to social complexity are to be avoided if you’d like your society to prevail).

Re: A Compass for the Politics of Collapse

#172

Post by mark_l_watson »

Ha! That was a good writeup. While I am an optimistic person here is one scenario from the article that I think is possible:

“”” Cyberpunk/Sci-fi: The social and ecological collapse is not accompanied by a reduction in material well-being or technological competence, but by a disproportionate growth of the gap between social classes. Often a collapse of the established order is not followed by a chaotic and violent conflict, but by corporations that replace the state and implement dystopian societies. Examples: Autonomous, The Peripheral, Elysium. “””

Humans are very adaptable and scenarios that sound awful to present day people, might be tolerable once they manifest.

Re: A Compass for the Politics of Collapse

#173

Post by redis_mlc »

Apocryphon wrote: post #91
Manuel_D wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the only real instance of a widespread collapse of civilization was the Late Bronze Age collapse: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Bronze_Age_collapse This entailed most urban centers in the Eastern mediterranean (besides Egypt and Mesopotamia) being violently destroyed, and writing completely disappearing in large regions. And all this happening over the course of maybe 50-100 years. Arguments can be made…

What about the sudden abandonment of cities in Mesoamerica at different periods?

[dead]

Re: A Compass for the Politics of Collapse

#174

Post by mbrodersen »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #162
mbrodersen wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree. It is actually very hard to collapse a modern Western society. It is too large, too complex, and have millions of people working to stabilise/fix problems.

Probably, it'll be more like the fall of the Roman empire; a slow gradual process of increasing instability, culminating not in utter chaos, anarchy and apocalypse, but in finding a new (temporary) period of some stability. It's probably going to be a decrease in quality of life for many people, but certainly not a cavemen fighting with sticks situation, and the bunker survivors gloriously emerging to rule the wastel…

Yep agree. The bunkers also forget that there are more firearms in the US than people. So plenty of people will be targeting the bunkers.

Re: A Compass for the Politics of Collapse

#175

Post by mbrodersen »

anemoiac wrote: post #171
mbrodersen wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree. It is actually very hard to collapse a modern Western society. It is too large, too complex, and have millions of people working to stabilise/fix problems.

For the collapse community, that complexity is viewed as a major vulnerability. A classic text in their lexicon is anthropologist Joseph Tainter’s “The Collapse of Complex Societies,” which discusses complexity’s role in collapse (the TL;DR is that diminishing marginal returns to social complexity are to be avoided if you’d like your society to prevail).

Yep they are pretty much wrong. Complexity is not the same as Fragility.

Re: A Compass for the Politics of Collapse

#176

Post by dredmorbius »

chobeat wrote: post #73
giantg2 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what purpose have you given it? Do you have any theoretical uses?

well I wrote it lol. But it helps me navigate the politics of it and try to build better communication and praxis in my own politics.

Are you familiar with / have you seen David Pollard's "New Political Map"?

https://howtosavetheworld.ca/2013/02/04/preparing-for-collap...

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