Apple proposes adding "model" element to HTML that displays 3D content • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple proposes adding "model" element to HTML that displays 3D content

#11

Post by jpm48 » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 12:23 PM UTC

tpmx wrote: post #9

jpm48 wrote: post #5

Interesting they show support for USD(Z) in the example. USD will be the standard for most VFX houses and make tooling for various web based systems so much easier.

Where is the format specification? https://graphics.pixar.com/usd/docs/ The closest thing I can find there is the glossary and the C++ doxygen api docs.

It's a schema specification with various plugins. I guess it will mainly be about the geo specification for models (and perhaps ignore the shaders etc). Documentation is hard to come by, you basically have to look at the source / examples.

Re: Apple proposes adding "model" element to HTML that displays 3D content

#12

Post by stefan_ » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 12:24 PM UTC

moron4hire wrote: post #6

jpm48 wrote: post #5

Interesting they show support for USD(Z) in the example. USD will be the standard for most VFX houses and make tooling for various web based systems so much easier.

We have a 3D model format for the web in glTF. This is Apple having Not Invented Here Syndrome again. USD was developed at Pixar, of which Steve Jobs was the founding investor. Apple is the only one who wants USDZ on the Web. Everyone else is already using glTF.

Even Windows 10 now has a glTF viewer, as I recently learned.

Re: Apple proposes adding "model" element to HTML that displays 3D content

#13

Post by moron4hire » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 12:28 PM UTC

stefan_ wrote: post #8

WebGL exists, why do we need a budget restricted version of a model viewer in the browser? None of the motivations are at all convincing. Should browsers now be obliged to integrate with VR headsets?

Browsers do integrate with VR headsets.

And it is awesome.

Re: Apple proposes adding "model" element to HTML that displays 3D content

#14

Post by neilv » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 12:31 PM UTC

I don't understand why a 3D geometry model would best be called simply "model" in the context of HTML.

The term "model" is a pretty generic term that's very relevant to HTML, already used heavily in Web frameworks, etc.

Re: Apple proposes adding "model" element to HTML that displays 3D content

#15

Post by snet0 » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 12:32 PM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #3

Interesting. So Apple wants better browser AR support for their upcoming goggles?

Assuming I'm reading your snark correctly, is this really such a bad thing? People here seem to have a rose-tinted view of the internet's past, before Google, Apple et al. "abused" their browsers' position to push changes into the spec.

I can certainly see that apparently there are a lot of HN commenters who would like to go back to the days of IE and no real web technologies or much progress, but I think practically everyone outside this bubble prefers their browser experience to be at least somewhat feature-rich, and while the proposal under question may be strictly unnecessary, it should be weighed against alternatives: bundling a model viewer with every page view.

Maybe this proposal is bad and a waste of resources, but I don't like the knee-jerk response of digging one's heels in and decrying any and all browser APIs as bloat.

Not entirely directed at you, but your response just seems to echo something I see very often.

Re: Apple proposes adding "model" element to HTML that displays 3D content

#16

Post by moron4hire » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 12:33 PM UTC

afandian wrote: post #7

What is old is new. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VRML

Are you the one who posts this link on anything 3D-in-the-browser posted here? If you knew anything about either, you'd know they are completely different things.

VRML was more like 3D, inline SVG, before SVG in the browser was a thing. It was markup in the page. And it was meant to be scriptable and interactive. This is none of those things.

Re: Apple proposes adding "model" element to HTML that displays 3D content

#17

Post by nynx » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 12:34 PM UTC

I think this is a great idea. It’d let people pull the model that the page is using pretty easily, which would be great.

Re: Apple proposes adding "model" element to HTML that displays 3D content

#18

Post by tenaciousDaniel » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 12:35 PM UTC

stefan_ wrote: post #8

WebGL exists, why do we need a budget restricted version of a model viewer in the browser? None of the motivations are at all convincing. Should browsers now be obliged to integrate with VR headsets?

Not only WebGL, but WebGPU is also in the works. I simply don't understand this proposal.

Re: Apple proposes adding "model" element to HTML that displays 3D content

#19

Post by gkilmain » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 12:36 PM UTC

moron4hire wrote: post #13

stefan_ wrote: post #8

WebGL exists, why do we need a budget restricted version of a model viewer in the browser? None of the motivations are at all convincing. Should browsers now be obliged to integrate with VR headsets?

Browsers do integrate with VR headsets. And it is awesome.

This is intriguing (and new to me). Can you point me to something you enjoy that I can look at? Not even sure what to search...

Re: Apple proposes adding "model" element to HTML that displays 3D content

#20

Post by afandian » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 12:37 PM UTC

moron4hire wrote: post #16

afandian wrote: post #7

What is old is new. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VRML

Are you the one who posts this link on anything 3D-in-the-browser posted here? If you knew anything about either, you'd know they are completely different things. VRML was more like 3D, inline SVG, before SVG in the browser was a thing. It was markup in the page. And it was meant to be scriptable and interactive. This is none of those things.

No I'm not.