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How you play Spades is how you play life

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Re: How you play Spades is how you play life

#101

Post by galaxyLogic »

klyrs wrote: post #90
qsort wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do have a point, but this trope is overstated in a way that doesn't reflect reality IMO. At a competitive level the playing field is completely level. You have to assume players have access to all the cards, otherwise games like it make zero sense. Sure, it's an expensive game, but so are many other games and sports. It's an accessibility issue, not a balance issue: it's not like you can buy your way to victory.…

You've demonstrated that only the rich can compete; not really refuting the point, is it? But limiting our attention to strictly pro-level play is a bit silly, as it ignores the overwhelming majority of players. When I was in high school, two of my friends had a lot more money than the rest of us. We'd get a few boosters of a new expansion, they'd get a case. Consequently, their decks were nigh unbeatable.

Isn't this how many online games like World-of-Warcraft work as well? You can buy success. Is that wrong? I think that's stupid from the part of the players who spend their money that way and smart from the part of the designers of the game who are laughing all the way to the bank.

But then isn't that how Football works as well. Star players get rich but who really gets rich is the company called NFL.

Re: How you play Spades is how you play life

#102

Post by galaxyLogic »

thr0wawayaway wrote: post #80

This might sound really inflammatory, but it's a genuine question that I just haven't ever heard anyone give an answer to. Can someone explain this? > "African-Americans were dealt a hell of a hand when we were forcibly brought to the American colonies as enslaved laborers." When I look at the median (and bottom-quartile) African-American vs. African, the former seem to live vastly better lives in almost every concei…

The people who were slaves were dealt a horribly bad hand. They were not just unlucky they were also victims of an inhumane crime.

Their present-day descendants don't have it as bad but they are still dealt a comparatively bad hand in terms of access to wealth education and opportunity. They are a minority that is being oppressed. The fact that their ancestors had it much worse doesn't change the fact that they are dealt a bad hand. Now, maybe people who live in Africa today are even worse off. But reasons for that are a different discussion.

I'm trying to pinpoint the logical flaw in your question. I think it is that you are comparing the circumstances of blacks who live in America with blacks who live in Africa. That's the hidden (presumably unintentional) racism in your question. You should be comparing the situation of blacks to situation of whites, not blacks vs. other blacks.

Re: How you play Spades is how you play life

#103

Post by qsort »

klyrs wrote: post #90
qsort wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do have a point, but this trope is overstated in a way that doesn't reflect reality IMO. At a competitive level the playing field is completely level. You have to assume players have access to all the cards, otherwise games like it make zero sense. Sure, it's an expensive game, but so are many other games and sports. It's an accessibility issue, not a balance issue: it's not like you can buy your way to victory.…

You've demonstrated that only the rich can compete; not really refuting the point, is it? But limiting our attention to strictly pro-level play is a bit silly, as it ignores the overwhelming majority of players. When I was in high school, two of my friends had a lot more money than the rest of us. We'd get a few boosters of a new expansion, they'd get a case. Consequently, their decks were nigh unbeatable.

> You've demonstrated that only the rich can compete; not really refuting the point, is it?

You are moving the goalposts now. But anyway:

- The entire argument doesn't even apply to 50% of Magic.

- Even only considering constructed, it's objectively not the case that more money = more results. Sure, if you want to play competitively you have to dump ~1k/yr in it, but that's not unusual for games/sports. If you are not interested in competitive play, you can get away with a fraction of that.

> We'd get a few boosters of a new expansion, they'd get a case

Giant red herring. Unless you are playing actual competitive formats, you can make decent, almost competitive decks for literally spare change.

Re: How you play Spades is how you play life

#104

Post by dang »

thr0wawayaway wrote: post #80

This might sound really inflammatory, but it's a genuine question that I just haven't ever heard anyone give an answer to. Can someone explain this? > "African-Americans were dealt a hell of a hand when we were forcibly brought to the American colonies as enslaved laborers." When I look at the median (and bottom-quartile) African-American vs. African, the former seem to live vastly better lives in almost every concei…

We've banned this account for using HN for race flamewar. Not what this place is for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: How you play Spades is how you play life

#105

Post by mst »

cool_dude85 wrote: post #26
ALittleLight wrote: post #24

There was a line in there that reminded me a bit of a thing you might write in a school essay - "When playing Spades, you’re dealt a hand and have no control over the cards you get—unless you’re cheating." I'm having trouble thinking of a card game where you do get control over the cards you're dealt. Maybe there is one? I'm reminded of a time in high school where for some reason I had to write an essay connecting Ma…

Funny enough, one counter example is another card game that's largely seen as part of African-American culture, bid whist. In that game, there's a small pile of cards dealt separately as a kitty, which the winning bidder gets to incorporate into his hand after the bid is done.

Unless I'm misunderstanding what I just googled, Spades is at least somewhat a descendent of Bid Whist.

But I didn't dig that deeply so don't count on me being right.

Re: How you play Spades is how you play life

#106

Post by stevenicr »

dharmab wrote: post #69
dagw wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And richer players have access better to cards that poorer payers can never hope to be dealt.

Another genre is "deckbuilding" where all the cards are in a shared pool and you construct a deck during the gameplay by various means.

that event type sounds interesting - I think it would be fun..

a more common and similar version where your deck is not pre-built (usually at home) - that is/was played a lot around thee parts is/was 'draft' although it's official nomenclature may be 'sealed' ( https://magic.wizards.com/en/game-info/gameplay/formats/seal...)

so it's a pool of packs you get, and you get to choose a card then pass.. so it's not totally random you get some choices, but you get stuck with some at the end of each pass rotation.. but then you build from there.

Definitely my favorite, above 'standard' or 'modern', at least it was, not sure about the new cards out or the "randomness" of the 'digital packs' are these days.

Re: How you play Spades is how you play life

#107

Post by bargle0 »

I learned spades from black students in college. My friends came up with a variation called “Nil Watch”, where one player in each partnership had to bid nil unless logically impossible (holding the big joker, holding the little joker and the 2, etc.). Then there was the drinking game version of that, called Death Watch.

We used the jokers and the two of spades as trumps, but not the two of diamonds. We pulled out the two of hearts and the two of diamonds.

Re: How you play Spades is how you play life

#108

Post by [deleted] »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #20

Spades has long been the standard card game in the US military, which is at least partly responsible for its widespread propagation. That is where I learned it, and most other people I know either learned it in the military or from someone that was in the military. That said, I never played it that much outside the military. These days everyone seems to play poker.

[deleted]

Re: How you play Spades is how you play life

#109

Post by arein3 »

eplanit wrote: post #86

Geezus, now card games are being ruined by racial narrative, too. I and many other people grew up playing Spades, and this is the first whiff of any such historical rewriting that I've encountered (though I shouldn't be surprised). I have no doubt that blacks as a group developed an affinity for the game -- but this piece tries to claim what is otherwise a unifying game is really all about black history. This is righ…

typical behavior

Re: How you play Spades is how you play life

#110

Post by me_me_me »

aaronbeekay wrote: post #93
sertsa wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They weren't kidnapped. 90% were purchased from black Africans in Africa and then brought here. The slave trade had been going on internally in Africa and into the middle east for centuries before the Europeans wanted cheap labor after finding the Americas. African nations profited immensely from the slave trade. The colonization of Africa did not occur until after the new world mostly abolished slavery. This does no…

Hasn’t somebody who is born free and then later purchased and sold as a slave been kidnapped at some point, even if not by the person who is selling them at the international border? I’m not well versed in the history of slave trade, but I would be curious to know what the relative economic benefit from slave trade was for African nations vs. the benefit of slave labor to purchasing nations.

Short term gain over long term gain.

Also I am guessing that the lack of industry was another factor. If you don't have profitable labour for slaves they you might end up loosing money.

As always if you don't know the reason its probably money.

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