China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week • Hacker News Board

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#861

Post by lai-yin » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 3:16 AM UTC

thephyber wrote: post #824

rsanek wrote: post #786

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how this is at all relevant? In both cases children under 18 aren't allowed to vote. Or do you mean they should be allowed to have a say in this?

The vast vast majority of citizens in either country do not play a part in legislation. The USA has lobbying, which is seen by the rest of the OECD countries as a legalized form of bribery. This allows regulated industries to corrupt and otherwise influence the regulation of their own industry. The USA might very well have similar restrictions to China on say prize boxes in video games if not for the outsized effect…

Lobbying is a beautiful mechanism of democracy. Anyone can register to be a lobbyist. Any organization's members can pool money together to form an association which represents its interests to legislators. I worked as a Congressional staffer on Capitol Hill and saw firsthand how it works. We met with lobbyists on both sides of every niche issue you could possibly imagine.

There's no perversion of government caused by lobbyists. On net balance lobbyists are beneficial - and sometimes they're all that stops a 20-something Legislative Aide from drafting a terrible piece of legislation which the Member only faintly understands.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#862

Post by _y5hn » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 3:17 AM UTC

neltnerb wrote: post #825

lordnacho wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Half the time I spent gaming was spent figuring out how to get the computer to do what I wanted which lead to a life long interest in technology. I remember the old days of "extended memory" which meant you needed slightly different configuration files for each game. That meant if you wanted to play a bunch of games, it made sense to learn how to write a bat script to config according to what you wanted to play. Yo…

I do truly hope that this is a case where multiple starting points ultimately end going to the same place, largely. There are multiple entry points and what was a good entry point when we were young is not the best way anymore. For one thing, now there are fairly easily reprogrammable boards that can do things like power motors for which you need to learn real programming just to start, even if you're using an exampl…

Just offer linux, and let them figure it out!

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#863

Post by cbozeman » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 3:18 AM UTC

aidenn0 wrote: post #171

bserge wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't played a good game in nearly a decade. I used to play them for the story, then it all became too grindy, trainers became moneymakers (yeah I used cheats, sue me, I played for fun), everything needs a fking Internet connection and anticheat software that does god knows what. Kinda sad.

I haven't played recent games, but are they really more grindy than e.g. EverQuest or the NES Square/Enix games?

The "problem" with EverQuest wasn't the game, it was the people.

It's just like real life. You aren't supposed to be the hero. You aren't supposed to have all the best everything and a million platinum.

You're just another cog moving through the world, easily replaceable. That's how it was designed. The problem is that, strangely, in a game, people can't accept that, so they'll spend 18 hours a day playing, but for some reason won't spend 18 hours a day working, even when spending 18 hours a day working at something clearly - undeniably - yields better results than playing a game.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#864

Post by est » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 3:20 AM UTC

herendin2 wrote: post #493

jpambrun wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcohol pretty much universally prohibited for minors and nobody calls that authoritarian. Governments have responsibility for the wellbeing of citizen, even against themselves (mandatory seatbelts comes to mind). Meanwhile, gaming addiction can also be very destructive.

Ethyl alcohol is easy to define: C2H6O There's no such clear definition of 'games'. So there is potential for interpretation and overreach.

The policy specifically limits to "online games". The only vague area is co-op or LAN games that requires always-online.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#865

Post by est » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 3:25 AM UTC

skystarman wrote: post #436

woofie11 wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm no more or less comfortable with authoritarian government than I am with an authoritarian market-based corporatocracy. Odds are that you are under an NDA which limits your freedom of speech. Odds are that if you refused to sign one, you couldn't afford a mortgage in a place with a lot of tech. Odds are you will sign more NDAs so your kids can keep going to the same school. The freedom of no regulation is an illus…

I'm not sure a country that commits cultural genocide and sent a million or more Muslim Uighurs into reeducation camps is where you should be looking for a "better system". Forced sterilization, forced labor... Or a country that has no freedom of the press, savagely beats or murders political dissidents, will take away your job and livelihood if you dare question CCP orthodoxy... The fact that you think is somehow mo…

Ahh, the Uighurs, American's most favored type of Muslim.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#866

Post by rnjesus » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 3:25 AM UTC

steelframe wrote: post #595

miohtama wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I learnt English thru video games. I would not be here without them. But arguable, modern games with lootboxes and metrics are way worse than 90s offline games.

> I learnt English thru video games To be honest I don't find this argument particularly convincing.

what’s wrong with what he said? that he used atypical (but still perfectly correct) spellings of “learnt” and “thru”?

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#867

Post by cbozeman » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 3:27 AM UTC

jimbob45 wrote: post #283

namelessoracle wrote: post #7

I have mixed feelings about this. Younger me learned a lot of problem solving skills and most importantly spent a lot of time learning how to read by playing RPGs and games that required lots of reading. My reading skills would not have been as advanced if i wasn't playing text heavy games that had a lot of plot like Square Enix games and the CRPGs of the time. Modern games though are clearly designed to get you as a…

>Modern games though are clearly designed to get you as addicted as possible and to play as long as possible to an extent that made the old school 90s RPGs grinds look tame and mild I try to tell my extended family this but I can tell that they choose not to listen. Games are no longer what they were growing up and you have to make sure your kid isn't playing a glorified slot machine. I plan to build a machine and on…

League of Legends suffers from a problem no one's figured out how to fix yet, or that would require so much effort, anyone capable of figuring it out would rather work for a FAANG, which is: How do you separate people who want to excel from people who just want to have "fun"?

You can't mix people with a hardcore attitude with people with a casual attitude. It'll result in disaster every single time, without fail, in any endeavor, ever. It never works, no matter what, and no one is going to be able to make it work. You have to separate them.

What's worse, the ban system for League of Legends favors shitty people over the people who actually want to do well. Someone can intentionally troll, die 29 times in a game, have 0 kills, 0 assists, and nothing happens. When the other four players try to win, but get frustrated at this single shitbag, and then say something, they get banned... instead of the obviously troller catching an instant permanent ban to teach them a lesson.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#868

Post by est » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 3:27 AM UTC

sergiomattei wrote: post #346

birbs wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because an authoritarian government made a decision doesn’t necessarily mean the decision was authoritarian. In the U.S., it’s somehow become popular opinion that the government shouldn’t do anything. Without the ability to make coordinated decisions, the U.S. has predictably fallen behind on a wide variety of metrics (income equality, health care, education, mass transit, etc.) You should reflect on why you vie…

But this is authoritarian. Why should the government control how I manage my time? I'm pretty sure this site would be pretty outraged if the government decided we could only code 3 hours a week. And please don't use the "but coding is constructive!1!" argument. A good use of time is defined by whoever spends it, not whatever someone else's idea of wasting time is. As a case in point, playing hours of Splitgate has ke…

> Why should the government control how I manage my time?

The government didn't. They just put online-game service providers to the same category as alcohol or drugs.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#869

Post by R0b0t1 » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 3:31 AM UTC

caddemon wrote: post #614

TillE wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Gaming addiction" is 99% depression and similar disorders. It's just not a thing on its own, it's a symptom.

The vast majority of depressed people do not demonstrate symptoms of gaming addiction. Even if one were to accept the argument that gaming addiction is always caused by underlying depression, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered separately from garden variety depression - there is often a nasty positive feedback loop between depressive symptoms and addictive symptoms. Besides, psychiatry in general needs to b…

The vast majority of depressed people do not exhibit exactly the same symptoms.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#870

Post by est » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 3:31 AM UTC

hjek wrote: post #199

lnyng wrote: post #110

Original notice from the government: https://web.archive.org/web/20210830120201/http://www.nppa.g... Google translation of the first entry: > Strictly limit the time for providing online game services to minors. Since the implementation of this notice, all online game companies can only provide minors with one-hour online game services from 20 to 21:00 on Friday, Saturday, Sunday and legal holidays. At other times, i…

So it's not just 3 hours per week, it's three specific hours a week , but also only for online games services. It's interesting that the law covers the service , not the client . Now, I wonder what qualifies as an online game service . If I play correspondence chess over email, would the email host be running an online game service? If someone modifies the Battle of Wesnoth network code to run over IRC messages, woul…

> If I play correspondence chess over email, would the email host be running an online game service? If someone modifies the Battle of Wesnoth network code to run over IRC messages, would the IRC host be running an online game service? (What about decentralized network game protocols?)

It's simple, Every MMORPG or online-game requires a license. The government can fine your company for violations. If you run games through email or IRC, pray your underground game network doesn't attract attentions.

btw there are tons of "grey" area online game services in China.