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Paris speed limit falls to 30km/h

bbc.com

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Re: Paris speed limit falls to 30km/h

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lowering speed limits doesn't do much except maybe in North Korea or somewhere else where draconian enforcement to actually get compliance is palatable. It's well understood in civil engineering circles that people in aggregate drive what they consider to be the reasonable speed for the road and if you want slower traffic you need to play visual tricks to make that happen. On multi-lane roads lowering speed limits ma…

speed is a poor proxy metric for injury/death, but it’s mediopolitically expedient and as such used regularly to misdirect conversation and policy. to reduce injury/death, we need to address distracted driving, reckless driving, and impaired driving. notice that all of these share ‘inattention’ in common. also note that it’s very hard to legislate attention, which is why the conversation gets misdirected toward speed…

How is total energy in crash a poor proxy? Yes there need to be confunding factors for a collision to happen but halving speed (and it being easier to loose speed at low speed) should more than half the energy that goes into breaking bones.

Yes there are interventions you can do to cut collision likelyhood by more than 75% but "poor proxy is unjustified".

Re: Paris speed limit falls to 30km/h

#52

Honestly, for city centers, I'm pretty okay with this. Highways are for fast traffic (and in many cases, imo, should have higher speed limits here in the US); but cities should be way slower. Americans seem to like high (and still violated) speeds in cities and slow (legal but always violated) speeds on highways.

In addition highways shouldn't go through cities (or black neighborhoods).

Re: Paris speed limit falls to 30km/h

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

speed is a poor proxy metric for injury/death, but it’s mediopolitically expedient and as such used regularly to misdirect conversation and policy. to reduce injury/death, we need to address distracted driving, reckless driving, and impaired driving. notice that all of these share ‘inattention’ in common. also note that it’s very hard to legislate attention, which is why the conversation gets misdirected toward speed…

How is total energy in crash a poor proxy? Yes there need to be confunding factors for a collision to happen but halving speed (and it being easier to loose speed at low speed) should more than half the energy that goes into breaking bones. Yes there are interventions you can do to cut collision likelyhood by more than 75% but "poor proxy is unjustified".

the point is that speed doesn’t cause the accident, only makes it more severe. it doesn’t change casualty rates materially. what we want to reduce is the accident in the first place, and reducing speed doesn’t do that, only increasing driver attentiveness does that. once we better solve the attentiveness issue should we consider severity and speed’s contribution to it.

Re: Paris speed limit falls to 30km/h

#55
post #49
post #41

I live in a city with low-ish speed limits and recently they added radars everywhere. It is just a nightmare, because the country is big and hilly, cars tend to have gear ratios optimized to 100km/h, my car is a Peugeot 206 and it stalls often if I go slow as the speed limit on some roads, and it stalls hard, as in the engine stops so suddenly that the car was moving and suddenly it isn't, had people almost crashing…

Take a bus, tram, metro, try bike - ask your politicians to make them reasonable. Cities should be pedestrians first, public transport and cyclists second, cars third. Certainly something we should aim at in Europe.

Where I live we don't have any tracks.

Bikes are impractical, terrain is stupidly hilly, some places even cars struggle.

As for buses... they are not useful for me because often the reason why I am taking out the car in first place (usually I just walk everywhere) is because I am going to supermarket (and our inflation-prone economy favors you making a huge purchase once per month, instead of many small purchases)

It is no wonder in a capital city nearby, there are so many cars that the area used by all cars is bigger than the area of all roads and streets combined.

Re: Paris speed limit falls to 30km/h

#56

Honestly, for city centers, I'm pretty okay with this. Highways are for fast traffic (and in many cases, imo, should have higher speed limits here in the US); but cities should be way slower. Americans seem to like high (and still violated) speeds in cities and slow (legal but always violated) speeds on highways.

In addition highways shouldn't go through cities (or black neighborhoods).

But there should be plenty of arterials to get to them.

I’ve definitely toyed with a “massive parking garage + transit hub at the edge of the city” more to improve walkability in cities.

Re: Paris speed limit falls to 30km/h

#57

Here in Paris, it is becoming a nightmare. The cityhall is led by incompetent and for a few years now they have started to do "media visible" demagogic actions without real thinking or discussion with the population. For cars for example, they don't really try to be intelligent and have the most efficient and fast mix of transportation. They just try to annoy as much as possible the car drivers even when it was not j…

Well, to add some nuance, cars are not fast anyway because of the bad traffic, the city is extremely polluted (there are days where we are told to stay inside) so cars are indeed a problem, and people are leaving for many reasons, one of them being that the city is too expensive. The metro is not unreliable - it can be very crowded, but it's ok. I understand the regional trains can be very unreliable. As to the polit…

What you repeat is the propaganda but not the reality.

Out of peak hours and places, cars speed goes reasonably well. Especially if you have to come in or go out of Paris. But also the mayor administration created a lot of congestion with stupid rework projects like the "place de la Bastille"; closing direct ways across Paris and blocking big avenue to force all drivers to pass by small streets to zigzag.

The air pollution could have been a real reason, but sadly it looks like to not be real: during the worse lockdown, the traffic was reduce to almost zero, and still the air pollution was just reduced of a tiny fraction. Paris is located in a lower part of a big valley, so the pollution is in big part the result of the industries and other of the valley that concentrate there for the most part.

I will not be against a better mix that intelligently reduce the car, for example by having park and drive, big avenues crossing as straight as possible for cars and small streets and blocks dedicated to walk, bicycles, ... Sadly it is not something intelligent like that, that they are doing. A lot of well known urbanists complained about what is done.

The mayor pretends that the changes are to done to have a more vegetal and eco-friendly city, but in reality she is pouring concrete everywhere and doing ecologically bad projects.

For example, she said that she will plant 700 000 trees during her tenure, so far, the net result is at least -1000 trees in Paris.

Also, for example, in honor of the Olympics she built a big fan zone that no one asked, useless, costly, on top of a major landmark, despite the city council assembly voting against the project.

In the famous champs de Mars in front of the Eiffel tower, she built a huge "ephemeral" exposition building for the future Olympics. This took 1/3 of the surface of the champs de Mars Park, but in Additional destroyed the ground by injecting hundred of concrete pillars deep into the soil for this project.

There use to be a free floating shared electrical car service, because of bad contracting they had to kill it.

There was a very good, efficient public shared bicycle system that was well used (Vélib). She decided to renew the contract to go with another provider officially to get some new bullshit features. Now the service is a mess, it did not worked at all for a long time, now it is working badly, with less stations than before, and more costly to the city and to riders than the previous service. This is typical of the mayor administration. The provider even blackmailed the city hall to get more money and the city hall paid...

This is a good example of the real acts of the mayor that despite her speeches are against a good ecological design. Only at my level, I was used to use a lot the Vélib, and now I haven't used it for a few years because it never worked when I wanted to use it.

For the metro, imagine, having all your trips face to face, ass to ass with other persons. With a micrometer of space around you. Having to fight to enter the train or not sure that you will be able to go in.

Paris is really losing inhabitants, debt goes to the roof, and shop and services are closing. So you can't say that it is just a number of mistakes because it is a continuous work for multiple years.

If you want to laugh, just have a look at the hashtag #saccageparis on tweeter

Re: Paris speed limit falls to 30km/h

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, to add some nuance, cars are not fast anyway because of the bad traffic, the city is extremely polluted (there are days where we are told to stay inside) so cars are indeed a problem, and people are leaving for many reasons, one of them being that the city is too expensive. The metro is not unreliable - it can be very crowded, but it's ok. I understand the regional trains can be very unreliable. As to the polit…

What you repeat is the propaganda but not the reality. Out of peak hours and places, cars speed goes reasonably well. Especially if you have to come in or go out of Paris. But also the mayor administration created a lot of congestion with stupid rework projects like the "place de la Bastille"; closing direct ways across Paris and blocking big avenue to force all drivers to pass by small streets to zigzag. The air pol…

I'm not advocating for the mayor - the velib debacle is indeed one of the many mistakes. She also happens to have been re-elected, so some people think she's not that bad.

However, the harshness of your comment does show that she is extremely divisive.

Furthermore, I've been living in central Paris as an adult for more than 20 years, would you mind being a bit more civil, and not describing me as 'repeating propaganda' (which I find offensive, If I am honest)?

Re: Paris speed limit falls to 30km/h

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you repeat is the propaganda but not the reality. Out of peak hours and places, cars speed goes reasonably well. Especially if you have to come in or go out of Paris. But also the mayor administration created a lot of congestion with stupid rework projects like the "place de la Bastille"; closing direct ways across Paris and blocking big avenue to force all drivers to pass by small streets to zigzag. The air pol…

I'm not advocating for the mayor - the velib debacle is indeed one of the many mistakes. She also happens to have been re-elected, so some people think she's not that bad. However, the harshness of your comment does show that she is extremely divisive. Furthermore, I've been living in central Paris as an adult for more than 20 years, would you mind being a bit more civil, and not describing me as 'repeating propagand…

She was re-elected with the vote of less than 13% of the inner city Paris inhabitants! (Without taking into account that the inhabitants of the Paris suburbs and region can't vote)

Also, the election was in the middle of the worst part of the pandemic and people were not sure that it was safe to go out to gather in vote offices.

In addition, she started and announce a lot of the crazy stuffs just after being elected!

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