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China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

reuters.com

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Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#681

Post by Tade0 »

treebot wrote: post #642
Ajedi32 wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, the policy itself isn't necessarily an issue, but the fact that it's being imposed by the government is a huge problem. (Especially since it's not even a democratically elected government. Taxation without representation and all that.) If a parent instituted the exact same policy for their kids I would have no problem with that.

If it were imposed by a democratically elected government, would it still be a problem?

Would any government risk to antagonize its future voters like this? I imagine teenagers hit by such regulations would remember who made these decisions and vote appropriately.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#682

Post by alfalfasprout »

birbs wrote: post #332
rank0 wrote: post #235

I am appalled by all the supportive comments in this thread. Why are HN users so comfortable with authoritarian government? It’s about more than just online games. It’s about control. I’m sure the great firewall is perfectly fine as well?

Just because an authoritarian government made a decision doesn’t necessarily mean the decision was authoritarian. In the U.S., it’s somehow become popular opinion that the government shouldn’t do anything. Without the ability to make coordinated decisions, the U.S. has predictably fallen behind on a wide variety of metrics (income equality, health care, education, mass transit, etc.) You should reflect on why you vie…

Because in the US a large number of us value the freedom to live our lives as we choose. Given that a policy like this one effectively allows the government to intervene in an activity that does not harm others (only oneself) it stands that we in the US view it as appalling.

Other societies may look at it differently and feel ok delegating decisions about how their lives should be lived to their government. I, for one, would never be OK with that.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#683

Post by perlgeek »

em500 wrote: post #676
rank0 wrote: post #235

I am appalled by all the supportive comments in this thread. Why are HN users so comfortable with authoritarian government? It’s about more than just online games. It’s about control. I’m sure the great firewall is perfectly fine as well?

I have a feeling that there is a bit of subtle manipulation by the framing going on here. The current Reuters article title that I get is "Three hours a week: Play time's over for China's young video gamers", but the submission's title is "China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week". This conjures images of Chinese police raiding homes and punishing children or parents who are cau…

It's not just limiting to three hours a week, but to three particular hours a week. Feels even more Draconian to me.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#684

Post by woofie11 »

skystarman wrote: post #436
woofie11 wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm no more or less comfortable with authoritarian government than I am with an authoritarian market-based corporatocracy. Odds are that you are under an NDA which limits your freedom of speech. Odds are that if you refused to sign one, you couldn't afford a mortgage in a place with a lot of tech. Odds are you will sign more NDAs so your kids can keep going to the same school. The freedom of no regulation is an illus…

I'm not sure a country that commits cultural genocide and sent a million or more Muslim Uighurs into reeducation camps is where you should be looking for a "better system". Forced sterilization, forced labor... Or a country that has no freedom of the press, savagely beats or murders political dissidents, will take away your job and livelihood if you dare question CCP orthodoxy... The fact that you think is somehow mo…

Well, the US did kinda oops away a million Muslims in response to 9/11, and over a half-million Americans in lack of response to COVID19. And we do have that whole gitmo thing. Plus, we had the whole slavery bit we keep forgetting about. I could list this stuff for a while, but that's besides the point.

It's not the current state that matters, but possible future outcome.

We're both hill-climbing trying to improve systems from an imperfect present. The US is higher up its hill than China right now, but it's not clear that China won't pass the US in a few decades. Or the US will race ahead. Or how other systems will fare.

It's also not clear how those will change as the world itself evolves.

I like having a diversity of political and economic systems, even is some are better than others. I also like a diversity of cultures, even if there are ones I strongly disagree with.

#simulatedannealing #geneticalgorithms

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#686

Post by simonh »

woofie11 wrote: post #674
simonh wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Odds are that you are under an NDA which limits your freedom of speech. These are mostly very specific, very limited and largely perfectly sensible. Yes some NDAs are onerous but they're quite rare. China has no concept of freedom of speech at all. It simply doesn't exist. I don't see how that's better. >Companies will keep making what sells, even if it's bad for you. We actually do have market regulation in the wes…

There's a famous quote attributed to Churchill: “Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.” The only way we'll find better ones is if we keep exploring. It's not so much that I want more or fewer regulations, as I want to explore systems other than market-based incentives. I'm not sure that regulations + free markets will get us to a place where people aren't addicted to video games, eat h…

>I'll mention that I'm aware of where China is with regards to labor practices, freedom-of-speech, and so on, but with regards to public health systems, China is way ahead of the US.

This is not true at all, I know because my wife is Chinese. Almost everyone is covered by health insurance in theory, but in practice this has limited use by most people because it only covers 50% of costs, and less than that for serious illnesses. Those on low incomes simply can't afford it anyway and there is nothing comparable to the level of cover under Medicaid or CHIPS, or Medicare for the elderly. Everyone under the public system has to pay up or not get treatment. Employer plans are better, but still very basic compared to typical US corporate plans. Waiting lists can also often put treatment out of practical reach unless you are willing to pay a lot of money to the right people.

It's also very scammy. They charge for everything they do, from painkillers, saline drips, blood tests, being hooked up to a blood oxymeter. On arrival they will set up all of that, the works, whether it's necessary or not so they can charge you for it. There is little to no regulation to prevent such abuses, and no practical way to get redress for malpractice.

On experimentation, communism and authoritarianism have been tried many, many times. There's nothing novel or experimental about it. We know it sucks. We know what Taliban style Islamic theocracies are like too, Afghanistan has been under one before remember?

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#687

Post by lhorie »

China thinks that video games (specifically, the online variety) are harmful enough to children that it needs to be regulated at a federal level and children's exposure to games should be restricted. But here's the thing: We on the west do exactly the same thing for things like cigarettes, alcohol and gambling. The motivations behind all those restrictions are even similar (largely related to children's health/well-being).

It's a big double standard to call their flavor of restrictions "authoritarian", while being ok with (or even strongly in favor of) our flavor of restrictions, even though the two are objectively similar in nature.

Since you mentioned the great firewall, I think it's interesting to bring up some perspective I've heard from various Mainland Chinese people: that many of them thinks western media brainwashes us (think the thing about Olympic photo coverage of Chinese medalists) and many condemn westerner take on social matters (the US' handling of Covid, for example, is seen as a "proof" that the our infatuation with freedom has severe failings). I've even heard someone once say that "American egos wouldn't be able handle Chinese opinion if the firewall was lifted, because it's a voice 1.4b people strong - intellectuals, trolls and everything in between - who disapprove of American ideologies".

To be clear: I'm not attempting to inflame, I'm merely bringing up what I heard from their side, for your edification. My advice is to be careful of using loaded terminology such as "authoritarian"; you don't own objective truth, and humility might go a long way in dispelling animosity from both sides.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#688

Post by hnjst »

lordnacho wrote: post #208
andrepew wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that playing a game might not improve a class of skills in general like coordination or problem solving, but I don’t think it requires much study to determine improvement of skills directly used. For example, to improve your reading skills you need to practice reading. If a game is providing reading material and motivation to read, it will improve reading skills. Games can also drive motivation in other areas…

> Half the time I spent gaming was spent figuring out how to get the computer to do what I wanted which lead to a life long interest in technology. I remember the old days of "extended memory" which meant you needed slightly different configuration files for each game. That meant if you wanted to play a bunch of games, it made sense to learn how to write a bat script to config according to what you wanted to play. Yo…

My childhood story too. We ended pretty knowledgable, effective and borderline dangerous when the watered down systems arrived later.

I'd put in the same category the edition of saved games to change your amount of money to FFFFFF or the epic shenanigans required to setup a LAN party.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#689

Post by sfink »

aidenn0 wrote: post #192
piaste wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: not a parent. He's a preschooler, not a teenager or even a kid. Can't you just... not give him a phone/tablet except at specified reward times?

I am a parent. You absolutely can. The kid will make your life miserable about it for anywhere from 4 hours to 3 months depending on how stubborn they are.

We do it by paying attention to how the kid's doing with it, and going through a cycle. He'll periodically get sucked too far into the YouTube (or ...) swamp, and we'll notice that he's more difficult to deal with, less interested in other pursuits, and is moodier and just generally having a harder time.

We'll have a tough conversation where we lay out the situation, he'll melt down but will eventually accept that it's not working out, and we'll impose temporary restrictions until it feels like things are more under control. He'll quickly realize that going halfway is way too hard, and will regulate himself to a level much stricter than what we imposed.

Then there's a fairly long honeymoon period where he's getting some exposure but not too much. Eventually the beast slowly takes over again, and we repeat.

It's not fun, it's ugly to watch, it's hard to do, but it feels like it's working. As in, I truly believe he's learning better self regulation than I've ever had, and for better reasons.

I'm just thankful my wife is both aware enough and enough of a hardass to pull it off; on my own, I'd do things too late and too extreme, and we'd just be two monkeys reacting to each other.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#690

Post by FooHentai »

spoonjim wrote: post #640
Marcus316 wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Is it a huge deal if they miss their 30 minutes a day? I probably allow my kids too much time with screens, but the flip side is that, if they don't have screen access for a few days, they don't really care. They'll read some books or play outside, no big deal. I get wary of setting hard limits on their screen time, because (knowing their personalities) they would then never accept if they didn't get tha…

The concept of "Screen Time" is so insane. You can do everything on a "screen" from writing the next great American novel to watching porn. So, is X hours of screen time too much? Depends on what you're doing with it.

I'm reluctant to invoke the 'kids nowadays' trope. However - While there's a lot someone can do with a computer, the days of picking up marketable skills due to having to fight through technology to get a game to work are long gone. Portable touch-screen devices are tuned for content consumption and not content creation. Large industries exists today with refined abilities to grab and hold the attention of young minds.

All of that taken together means the odds of 'screen time' being a productive endeavour are IMO much smaller than they once were. If the overwhelming odds are your kid is going to be sucked into a skinner box for the duration of their screen time it seems prudent to put limits on that which might limit the damage being done.

Of course none of this is a substitute for knowing your kid as an individual and tailoring conditions to what's best for them, versus any kind of blanket rule stuff.

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