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Enterprise Software Projects Killed the Software Developer

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Re: Enterprise Software Projects Killed the Software Developer

#31

Post by burnished »

mousepilot wrote: post #2

this is written like its bad to "hand over code" to others. I don't like it.

Reading code is harder than writing code, right? And handing code over to some one else is inherently handing it over to some one who does not have the experience or knowledge you gained writing it. If you want that person to be successful then there is pressure to make that code simple. The author thinks that pressure causes the code to also be poorly or naively engineered. I don't think the idea is that handing over code is bad, but that a team should maintain responsibility for a product over time (because they can take advantage of their domain knowledge) instead of handing it over (like it was a finished product, when it isnt).

Re: Enterprise Software Projects Killed the Software Developer

#32

Post by 908B64B197 »

runawaybottle wrote: post #22
908B64B197 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real problem is that the while the same code might look obvious to John Carmack, it might not look obvious to $outsourced_bodyshop_ressource_0443434. Then you start coding for the lowest common denominator.

What if the NYTimes had journalists that described the news in their specific prose or worse, poetically. Speak plainly, it’s the news, report it as plainly and accurately as possible. Often many people like to attach mathematics and science to Software Engineering to signal elitism, but truthfully this profession is a lot closer to writing. Write clearly, first and foremost, and above all else. $outsourced_bodyshop_…

"Let's not use inheritance, it's complicated and could confuse programmers. Better to just copy-paste code."

"Source control? I don't know, this git command line is a little bit too much. Let's just use zip files and email the source"

Re: Enterprise Software Projects Killed the Software Developer

#33

Post by xupybd »

runawaybottle wrote: post #22
908B64B197 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real problem is that the while the same code might look obvious to John Carmack, it might not look obvious to $outsourced_bodyshop_ressource_0443434. Then you start coding for the lowest common denominator.

What if the NYTimes had journalists that described the news in their specific prose or worse, poetically. Speak plainly, it’s the news, report it as plainly and accurately as possible. Often many people like to attach mathematics and science to Software Engineering to signal elitism, but truthfully this profession is a lot closer to writing. Write clearly, first and foremost, and above all else. $outsourced_bodyshop_…

I'm starting to notice a correlation between my prose and my code. Writing has not been my strength and I've quietly worked on it. Learning to organize my thoughts to best communicate with others has enabled me to organize my code for others to read. I've found this has improved the maintainability of my code. I wish I had put more effort into writing through out my schooling and early career.

I've noticed that the most successful business people I know are good at written communication. Much like programming often the better communicators write less to achieve more.

Re: Enterprise Software Projects Killed the Software Developer

#34

Post by foobar2021 »

jaywalk wrote: post #29
tejtm wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is ambiguous, "Two plus Three times Five" as a sentence reads and is naturally processed from left to right for a result of " is twenty-five". But to anyone who knows math (precedence), "2 + 3 * 5 = 17"

The order of operations doesn't change because the equation is written out in English versus mathematical notation.

How do you say and/or spell out parentheses?

Re: Enterprise Software Projects Killed the Software Developer

#35

Post by runawaybottle »

908B64B197 wrote: post #32
runawaybottle wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the NYTimes had journalists that described the news in their specific prose or worse, poetically. Speak plainly, it’s the news, report it as plainly and accurately as possible. Often many people like to attach mathematics and science to Software Engineering to signal elitism, but truthfully this profession is a lot closer to writing. Write clearly, first and foremost, and above all else. $outsourced_bodyshop_…

"Let's not use inheritance, it's complicated and could confuse programmers. Better to just copy-paste code." "Source control? I don't know, this git command line is a little bit too much. Let's just use zip files and email the source"

That is not what I am suggesting, but alas, you seemed to have proven my point. I did not write clearly enough, and behold the outcome. Now imagine if we all do this in a codebase.

Re: Enterprise Software Projects Killed the Software Developer

#36

Post by zozbot234 »

useful wrote: post #14

Elegant and clever code wont live through a maintenance cycle. I'll take a software developer who writes and structures code so change requests and code are written in a way that the DSL is the same across the organization. This makes changes easy. Clever people should be writing libraries or doing research. Don't kid yourself, you are either the guy who builds the building and its easy because its greenfield, or you…

The fix is to properly document your code. "Clever" code is an anti-pattern, but there's no need to make your code less elegant or less properly engineered than it otherwise could be. Hacked-together, low quality code is even less maintainable than "overly clever" code, so it's worth trying to avoid that.

Re: Enterprise Software Projects Killed the Software Developer

#37

Post by runawaybottle »

burnished wrote: post #31
mousepilot wrote: post #2

this is written like its bad to "hand over code" to others. I don't like it.

Reading code is harder than writing code, right? And handing code over to some one else is inherently handing it over to some one who does not have the experience or knowledge you gained writing it. If you want that person to be successful then there is pressure to make that code simple. The author thinks that pressure causes the code to also be poorly or naively engineered. I don't think the idea is that handing ove…

It is also the most empathetic thing you could do. Try to imagine what it would be like if someone handed over their ‘brilliant’ code to you.

Re: Enterprise Software Projects Killed the Software Developer

#38

Post by slownews45 »

zozbot234 wrote: post #36
useful wrote: post #14

Elegant and clever code wont live through a maintenance cycle. I'll take a software developer who writes and structures code so change requests and code are written in a way that the DSL is the same across the organization. This makes changes easy. Clever people should be writing libraries or doing research. Don't kid yourself, you are either the guy who builds the building and its easy because its greenfield, or you…

The fix is to properly document your code. "Clever" code is an anti-pattern, but there's no need to make your code less elegant or less properly engineered than it otherwise could be. Hacked-together, low quality code is even less maintainable than "overly clever" code, so it's worth trying to avoid that.

Actually - I've found the "elegant properly engineered code" a total NIGHTMARE to deal with. Reflection, endless hierarchies, complexity on complexity.

The PHP script kid basically writes a linear program (tons of duplication) with no crazinesses. Yes, it's "low quality", but if you do a few function out refactorings you've got something very easy to work with.

I just wish there was a standard template - access check, runtime complexity at code comment at top of function (ie, O(1), O(n), O(n^2)) some reasonable comments, error handling, done. Throw in some unit tests if desired.

Re: Enterprise Software Projects Killed the Software Developer

#39

Post by jkingsbery »

codingdave wrote: post #13

The disclaimer at the top, where they say their experience comes from being an external consultant is key. Because when I worked in Enterprise IT, we had our own team of senior software folk, and my experience does not match this article. I'm not saying we didn't have our problems, they were just different than described. At the end of the day, though, the point of treating internal products like products and not pro…

I had the same reaction. I've spent most of my career working on non-consumer-facing software (either internal enterprise, or external to enterprises or small-medium businesses). At all the places I've worked, the team that built software was the one that would go on to operate it - there was no hand-off. Then again, I've never worked in consulting, nor worked on teams that used consultants to deliver code. Many of the points the article raised are good ones, it's a shame that the title is so misleading (or at least, reflects a narrow experience).

Re: Enterprise Software Projects Killed the Software Developer

#40

Post by elzbardico »

foobar2021 wrote: post #34
jaywalk wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The order of operations doesn't change because the equation is written out in English versus mathematical notation.

How do you say and/or spell out parentheses?

Easy: Take two plus five and multiply it by six
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