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If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

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Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#301

Post by agustif »

msie wrote: post #286
JohnBooty wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead we have to simulate work samples through whiteboard coding, pair programming sessions, take home coding projects, coding knowledge tests, etc. Very small sample size but we've had good results skipping coding exams entirely, and simply talking through some scenarios with candidates. - give them a hypothetical problem ("the page is loading slowly") and role play how they'd troubleshoot it - do they understand…

"tell us about a tricky technical challenge you solved" I have so much trouble remembering previous challenges I've overcome. I don't ruminate on them, I just move on...

Then just do a few canned answers before getting into interviews, so you don't have to wait and think about it and just shout out the most appropriate one you can think of the list you made?

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#302

Post by tempest_ »

msie wrote: post #286
JohnBooty wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead we have to simulate work samples through whiteboard coding, pair programming sessions, take home coding projects, coding knowledge tests, etc. Very small sample size but we've had good results skipping coding exams entirely, and simply talking through some scenarios with candidates. - give them a hypothetical problem ("the page is loading slowly") and role play how they'd troubleshoot it - do they understand…

"tell us about a tricky technical challenge you solved" I have so much trouble remembering previous challenges I've overcome. I don't ruminate on them, I just move on...

You don't need to ruminate on things like this but there is a lot of value in keeping a light dev journal of sorts about what you have done and the results.

Makes it way easier in interviews or ever just in a normal performance review where you can refer back to things.

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#303

Post by cratermoon »

timr wrote: post #259
mateo411 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "How would you pull in data from an arbitrarily long -- maybe never-ending -- source of data in Python?" The answer to this question is to use a generator. If you don't know this, then both people are going to wish that they had that half hour of their life back. Is this a good question? If you want somebody with a lot of Python expertise, then knowing about generators is a good thing. If I was interviewing a candi…

> > "How would you pull in data from an arbitrarily long -- maybe never-ending - source of data in Python?" > The answer to this question is to use a generator. If you don't know this, then both people are going to wish that they had that half hour of their life back. That's funny...I've implemented more than my share of such things in a long career, and my first intuition for an answer to the question, as phrased, w…

This is a sign that the interview questions aren't there to actually assess technical ability, but are geared towards excluding anyone who hasn't travelled in the right circles. The employer isn't looking for someone skilled, they are looking for someone who is pre-filtered to think a certain way and know certain things.

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#304

Post by vidanay »

rhacker wrote: post #251
jaaron wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. As a software engineer for 20+ years, I've talked with my sister, who is an ER doctor about this often. Most folks outside of engineering think our interview processes are crazy. Keep in mind, there's significantly more training that goes into the medical field, so there's more emphasis on the institutions. Where did you go to school? What hospitals or facilities did you work with? Your resume and references spea…

Can you imagine? Hi I'm Ed Barns I'm here for the interview of ER Physician. QUICK Put on your scrubs we've got a patient here with a bone dangling out of his arm. No you don't understand I'm just here to interview. THIS IS THE INTERVIEW HURRY UP.

You should write for Grey's Anatomy. That sounds like one of their ridiculous plot lines.

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#305

Post by WalterBright »

dangwu wrote: post #282
WalterBright wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one advantage to working on open source. Your work is all just a click away.

Have you ever gotten a job from just showing off your open source work, though?

Other people I know have. Quite a few have leveraged their contributions to the D language into a much higher paying job than they had before.

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#306

Post by lake-effect »

I've done two technical interviews this summer. The first one was shakey, the second went really well, but ultimately both places moved on with another candidate. It's definitely a skill and learning to not get so nervous about them helps a ton. I went from grad school physics to my first data science job and I'm trying to further transition into ML engineer type roles. My biggest insecurity is not knowing the comp sci 101 basics, since my programming was self taught along the way (learning what I had to learn for my thesis research simulations and then whatever else I learned in my first 2.5 years as a data scientist). I long for the day that I have enough experience under my belt that I'm a ML unicorn and companies view me as highly desirable, but I probably got many more years of grinding til I reach that point.

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#307

Post by ryandrake »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #202
allo37 wrote: post #160

Is this an American thing? Or maybe just a non-embedded systems thing? I live in Canada and was looking for a job recently...got two offers! One was just a casual chat about my experience, the other was a casual chat + take-home exam, which took about 3 hours. Ater reading all these scary whiteboard interview stories on social media I studied up on programming puzzle-type questions...was a bit of a let-down, honestly…

My experience with the embedded world is that the engineers and managers working in that field tend to be older. They're from the era when it was common to get a job after a casual chat. About how old was the manager who hired you? I got a contract gig with an embedded development house a few years back after a couple hour interview - more of a chat. The guys hiring me were in their early 60s.

Can confirm. I had two jobs in the past which could be considered embedded development, and got both of them after casual (but technical) chats. The first one converted to employment after a 6 month trial period as a contractor. No whiteboard hazing, no leetcode, no take-home "challenges". And the average age at both shops definitely skewed older.

I also got the impression that there weren't a huge torrent of engineers with assembly and JTAG debugging experience banging down their doors, which probably helps.

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#308

Post by debarshri »

We made the interview process very simple and traditional in our current organisation. 30 minute chat, judge whether the person can do the job or is a good fit, if yes then offer a year contract with 1-3 months of evaluation period. Changing a job is risky also from the candidate's perspective so if the person is pretending, the lies will catch up. Most of the scenario it has worked pretty well.

Sometimes, people who you think are not capable to do the job, often outperform expectations too. It is all about taking a risk on a person and giving them respect and a chance. We could have done leetcode, or pair programming session. It takes more energy and effort to do it from both sides and probability of finding a good candidate is more or less the same.

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#309

Post by cratermoon »

Zelphyr wrote: post #255
nine_zeros wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Is this how working with these guys is going to be?" Unfortunately, yes. Young engineers are terrible at communication and working with others. Partly due to workplace incentives and partly because you must realize that entire generations have grown up with computers and not people.

I don't think this deserves the downvotes it is getting simply because there is some truth to the comment. A good friend of mine worked with a young developer recently who was excited about what he was able to generate with a single npm command. When my friend, who has been writing software longer than this guy has been alive, calmly pointed out that the npm command had just generated 400 files and thousands of lines…

I'd be mildly ticked-off, too. The senior guy was being an ass.

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#310

Post by jethro_tell »

ghaff wrote: post #227
jethro_tell wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet finding someone competent for the job is like a needle in a hay stack. Having a base of expected/certified knowledge would take a lot of that away.

And yet every other technical field which has no expectation that this has been a passion since childhood and applicants should have personal projects in the field manages somehow to hire people.

That's what I'm saying. We could train a base of knowledge so that skills transfer and we don't have to find super specialized operators for every role. When you get a union plumber to the shop, you know that they passed their certification. You may not like working with them or they may do sloppy work or something but as a whole, you're going to get a competent operator once the apprenticeship is finished.
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