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If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

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Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#141

Post by sparker72678 »

_f1dq wrote: post #105
jelling wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did an interview with Reddit - whom I hope sees this comment - and they not only provided zero information about the context of the tech interview in advance, or whether it would be one, but also the interview itself was like playing a random version of tech Jeopardy, but without the category columns, and very few of the questions had anything to do with the job I would be doing. I have over 20 years of programming…

I had a similar interview with a different company last year. Three guys and me on a Zoom call with me sharing my screen trying to solve a coding problem that in no way resembled anything I have ever encountered in my 25 year career. When I got stuck they just stared at me. They would not give me any hints whatsoever. They just stared at me. When the interview was over I thought, "Is this how working with these guys…

I had an extremely similar experience recently and it really shook me up for a few days. Same amount of time in the industry as you.

Looking back there's no way I would have fit in there, but damn did that interview screw me up for a while.

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#142

Post by NoGravitas »

Pelic4n wrote: post #27
AshamedCaptain wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even worse is hiring someone merely mediocre and not actively harmful. What's so bad about... mediocrity? For obvious statistical reasons, most companies, most jobs, and most people are mediocre (or worse).

Because a person's worth is directly tied to how much value they can produce for their company's shareholders. And if someone mediocre ends up being able to do the job, the company's management may face the fact that they're just a bunch of lame yuppies spending their life in the office to make someone else richer, not changing the world/making the world a better place/any other bullshit eaten from the trashcan of id…

Every day I am eating from this trash can.

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#143

Post by vmception »

_f1dq wrote: post #105
jelling wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did an interview with Reddit - whom I hope sees this comment - and they not only provided zero information about the context of the tech interview in advance, or whether it would be one, but also the interview itself was like playing a random version of tech Jeopardy, but without the category columns, and very few of the questions had anything to do with the job I would be doing. I have over 20 years of programming…

I had a similar interview with a different company last year. Three guys and me on a Zoom call with me sharing my screen trying to solve a coding problem that in no way resembled anything I have ever encountered in my 25 year career. When I got stuck they just stared at me. They would not give me any hints whatsoever. They just stared at me. When the interview was over I thought, "Is this how working with these guys…

Nothing about tech interviews is a signal for what happens inside the company, aside from you having the dual role of giving tech interviews while you forgot to factor that into your sprint planning

You’re making the same mistake at vetting them that they’re making at vetting you

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#144

Post by vidanay »

_f1dq wrote: post #105
jelling wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did an interview with Reddit - whom I hope sees this comment - and they not only provided zero information about the context of the tech interview in advance, or whether it would be one, but also the interview itself was like playing a random version of tech Jeopardy, but without the category columns, and very few of the questions had anything to do with the job I would be doing. I have over 20 years of programming…

I had a similar interview with a different company last year. Three guys and me on a Zoom call with me sharing my screen trying to solve a coding problem that in no way resembled anything I have ever encountered in my 25 year career. When I got stuck they just stared at me. They would not give me any hints whatsoever. They just stared at me. When the interview was over I thought, "Is this how working with these guys…

Honestly, these are the reasons I don't look for a new position.I make "good" money, but by no means great. I have the benefit of 20 years tenure and apparent stability in my current role. Trading that for more stress in hiring and gambling more stress in daily work doesn't balance the potential salary increase.

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#145

Post by colinmhayes »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #127
0xffff2 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in the same industry as SpaceX. They are in fact well known for pay that would be average-at-best in a sane work environment coupled with an absolutely insane work environment. When I was in college, my only goal was to get a job at SpaceX. After getting a few internships and talking to some people in the industry, my only goal now is to never be so desperate for work that I accept a job at SpaceX. Their inter…

A friend's son is in Aerospace Engineering, attends UIUC in Central Illinois. "SlaveX" is the nickname colloquially used.

UIC is in Chicago. UIUC is in central Illinois.

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#146

Post by teeray »

Nbox9 wrote: post #13

I think a lot of this is because our profession does not have an accepted universal bar everyone can jump over to be considered ‘qualified’. Every technical interview feels like rolling the dice in proving I am a competent developer. Giving me 50 minutes in a high pressure situation in an environment i am unfamiliar with and people I just meet will never product my best results, and then add to the fact that I could…

It really would be nice to have some kind of license at this point. For interviewees, it sucks because you basically have to take your license exam for each company you apply to. Interviewers have to administer this exam, and they may not be that good at doing that either. They’re more interested in getting to know candidates and hearing about their experience.

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#147

Post by NullInvictus »

DeBraid wrote: post #14

Very few firms want to hire juniors, while nearly all firms desire senior-level talent. This manifests inflated job vacancies because so many firms have an evergreen job posting for "Senior Full Stack". Because talent is scarce these roles rarely get filled (hiring managers expect million-dollar candidates to accept $100-200k compensation). Also, because lots of software requires specific expertise, there are vacanci…

Worse, many firms are put off by juniors for entirely preventable reasons. In their minds, juniors are undesirable because the moment they are trained up, they tend to jump ship for senior positions elsewhere. Why train your competition, right?

The reason they jump ship is because the firm refuses to re-evaluate them for what they are worth, and keeps them on work meant to free up the company's existing senior staff (i.e., dead-end grunt-work that results in burnout). If you, as a junior developer, want to be re-valued, you need to jump ship.

This creates a feedback loop. Companies view juniors as a cheaper developer you _might_ get 2 years of low-cost work out of (after training) before they'll leave, creating a self fulfilling prophecy.

I've watched (and experienced) this loop multiple times. It's utterly baffling how firms would rather go through the cost and drain of finding and replacing talent rather than re-evaluate and pay their existing, proven talent what they are worth on the open market.

Workers would rather not move around. Workers would rather have a stable position in a job they like, in a community where they can purchase a home and build lives and/or families. Once you get past 35, playing the required musical-chairs needed to advance your career is a real drag. It does not need to be this way.

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#148

Post by bertjk »

jethro_tell wrote: post #102
ren_engineer wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

seems like a chicken and egg problem how are senior engineers supposed to be created if very few companies are willing to train junior engineers? Why aren't these companies offering paid apprenticeships if they are so desperate for workers?

In part because you have to jave enough sr people able to mentor. There's not a great industry framework. As a plumber, you pay your apprentice usually 60% sr/journyman salary with a 5% increase every 6 months to match the value of the skill up. There are also industry standard, industry funded classroom settings, that teach things like building codes and industry standards and some adjacent trade craft. Instead you…

When you say "industry funded", who specifically are you referring to? Tool / parts / consumables manufacturers? The individual plumbing firms?

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#149

Post by ghaff »

gmadsen wrote: post #136
jethro_tell wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In part because you have to jave enough sr people able to mentor. There's not a great industry framework. As a plumber, you pay your apprentice usually 60% sr/journyman salary with a 5% increase every 6 months to match the value of the skill up. There are also industry standard, industry funded classroom settings, that teach things like building codes and industry standards and some adjacent trade craft. Instead you…

one difference though is that varying levels of skill can be staggeringly different for SWE compared to a plumber. There are people that have been coding in basic since 12 and hacking their entire childhoods, and you have some people that coded for the first time in a cs program which they completed in an average fashion.

Not everyone is equally good of course but I would be very cautious about making hacking since 12 a requirement for a developer job. It certainly doesn't have its equivalent in any other branch of engineering or indeed just about anywhere else other than the arts.

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#150

Post by mihaifm »

Another aspect might be that companies list job openings when they don't actually need them. It's probably just to gain visibility in the market, justify HR salaries or keep a door open for the next 10x developer who might land on their site. The only ones who lose here are the people taking the interviews and getting rejected for no apparent reason.
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