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China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

reuters.com

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Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#91
People talking about the benefits of games reminds me of people talking about the benefits of, say, a glass of wine with every meal: it's worth looking into but at the same time it's the sort of thing that obviously doesn't scale linearly with the amount/intensity of consumption.

I similarly have mixed feelings as well, but for slightly different reasons. I've read about studies that say that musical training (which is often believed to translate to improvements in other cognitive aspects of life) doesn't actually correlate to said improvements, and I suspect that the same might be true for games (e.g. solving game puzzles doesn't necessarily mean you get better at school math or whatever)

This line of reasoning is also supported by research on correlation between games and violence (i.e. the consensus is that no such causation relationship exists).

All of these suggest (to me) that gaming is just its own activity without much impact on life other than opportunity cost itself.

However, there are some aspects of gaming that can affect overall well-being, specifically aspects related to repetitiveness (e.g. grinding). Repetitiveness is something that does come up in a lot of disciplines (e.g. its soothing effect in autist kids, or repetitiveness as tool in the context of meditation, etc).

The "addictive" aspect isn't necessarily a bad thing either, IMHO. Games are, almost by definition, supposed to be engaging. But that addictiveness may come in a form of trade-offs, for example, back in the day of grindy RPGs, delayed gratification was basically the entire point of grinding. The one aspect that I think is justly vilified is monetization strategies that tie to addictive elements of gameplay (especially the gacha variety) and this is something that I'd actually commend China for trying to address via regulation.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#92
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The time I spent in virtual worlds as a child remains one of the most cherished experiences of my life. They brought me happiness at times when nothing else did. They stoked my imagination and gave me a sense of wonder. They were one of the few avenues I had for connecting with my peers. It wasn't some waste of time that I regret when I look back as an adult.

Reading did that for me. > They were one of the few avenues I had for connecting with my peers Three hours a week isn't much, but it doesn't have to be gaming to connect with people of your age, isn't it? > It wasn't some waste of time that I regret when I look back as an adult. I don't think it's what worries the Chinese government. Or me. I'm quite sure that e.g. a 1 hr/day limit would be a good thing. You can say…

> Reading did that for me.

Reading decidedly did not do that for me. I didn't have the attention span for/interest in most books.

> but it doesn't have to be gaming to connect with people of your age, isn't it?

Socializing was always difficult for me. Gaming was one of the few things I could mention and my peers would say "oh, me too!"

> I'm quite sure that e.g. a 1 hr/day limit would be a good thing

That would be more than twice the limit described

> You can say "parents", but at one point children stop listening. Then what do you do?

My parents actually did limit me to 30m/day on weekdays (they took the limits off on weekends). I don't know why you suggest that I could've simply ignored them (but somehow couldn't ignore a government mandate?).

When I would reach my limit for the day I'd generally do what homework I had (fair enough), and then... do nothing. Mindlessly watch TV out of total boredom. Looking back, I'm not sure why they thought that was better.

Anyway: the common theme for this and all other totalitarian ideas is that individuals are different people with different needs, and what's best for one isn't best for others.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#93
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's limited to the online game because the check is on server side rather than client (console/phone) side since it utilizes national ID data you provide when registering.

Do you have a source for that? From the article it sounds like the expectation is that all games should be implementing mechanisms to limit this. But that could just be poor reporting by Reuters ( not unsurprising for a breaking foreign government regulation change like this )

What about the Alibaba South China Morning Post then? https://www.scmp.com/tech/policy/article/3146918/china-limit...

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#95
post #5

I wonder why China feels so afraid of games.

If you want to be the global superpower and also keep your strangehold on society, you don't want children spending a lot of time on games.

You want them to learn social skills (for future reproductive success), study math/science, etc.

The US brain-drained the entire world for more 100 years, and the CCP likely sees efforts like this as a way to catch up.

I disagree -- I think you become as powerful as the US by being the best place for smart people to move to, not by forcing your populous into a predetermined mold -- but they're never going to be the attractive bastion of freedom that the US was perceived as.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#97
post #8

Anyone want to argue why this would be bad, apart from restricting freedom? BTW, nothing in the article about limits on TikTok or YouTube or whathaveyougot. That's as much opium as gaming, IMO.

apart from freedom...just a little human right. no biggie.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#98

I have mixed feelings about this. Younger me learned a lot of problem solving skills and most importantly spent a lot of time learning how to read by playing RPGs and games that required lots of reading. My reading skills would not have been as advanced if i wasn't playing text heavy games that had a lot of plot like Square Enix games and the CRPGs of the time. Modern games though are clearly designed to get you as a…

When you were a kid you had a lot of extra time and video games fill that voids.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The time I spent in virtual worlds as a child remains one of the most cherished experiences of my life. They brought me happiness at times when nothing else did. They stoked my imagination and gave me a sense of wonder. They were one of the few avenues I had for connecting with my peers. It wasn't some waste of time that I regret when I look back as an adult.

I'm quite happy for my kids to spend hours playing online when they are playing together with friends. They start up discord audio rooms or whatever and play as a team. Of course, playing with a ball in a field might be better, but, covid. I don't allow them to play single-player games so much, unless it's something original, story or experience-based. Undertale, Braid, Journey, etc. Certainly nothing 'infinite scrol…

I would probably ban my kids from playing anything with those gambling-style mechanics, yeah. I think it's a disgusting trend that's turning a wonderful medium into digital cigarettes. I might make an exception for something all their friends were playing together, but I wouldn't pay for any loot boxes.

But I would caution against being too picky about single-player experiences. The most meaningful games for me were not generally story-based, they were "play-based". Exploring mechanics, exploring a world, seeing what might be possible, what might lie out there to be found. Zelda, Pokémon, etc. A game doesn't have to be a work of literature to be meaningful and worthwhile; children in particular benefit from play. I would cite Minecraft as a good modern example of this ethos (which can of course be played either alone or with others, and is valuable in both modes).

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#100

I have mixed feelings about this. Younger me learned a lot of problem solving skills and most importantly spent a lot of time learning how to read by playing RPGs and games that required lots of reading. My reading skills would not have been as advanced if i wasn't playing text heavy games that had a lot of plot like Square Enix games and the CRPGs of the time. Modern games though are clearly designed to get you as a…

I think it really depends. I have way too many personal anecdotes of people I knew from back in the day (middle/high school) who gamed like 8 hours a day. Most of those people were _addicted_, and a handful went on to drop out of college and aren't really doing that great today. They still play 8+ hours a day..

I remember I'd ask them if they wanted to study, or if they want to go hiking or do something IRL, but they'd always refuse and prefer to play some MMO and get high level loot there. Personally, the people I used to play some MMOs with were huge into merchanting and controlling the in-game economies, and I think there's a different complexity involved in running spreadsheets and following trends vs following what an addon tells you to press next. These guys were much older than me, and they taught me a lot about basic economics. Most games are designed to have people keep playing an endless grind, but purely focusing on in-game money and controlling the economy was not something the games would have designed by default.

I think by default, most young people would benefit (esp mental health wise) by having their video game usage cut down. As I grow older, it is insane how cigarettes or gambling aren't the only addictive things. Kids are exposed to it from a young age by trading their time for something meaningless. And I'd argue that people like you and me who feel they learned problem solving or how economies work (through gaming as kids) are quite rare.

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