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China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

reuters.com

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Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#71

Post by tgv »

brundolf wrote: post #28
tgv wrote: post #8

Anyone want to argue why this would be bad, apart from restricting freedom? BTW, nothing in the article about limits on TikTok or YouTube or whathaveyougot. That's as much opium as gaming, IMO.

The time I spent in virtual worlds as a child remains one of the most cherished experiences of my life. They brought me happiness at times when nothing else did. They stoked my imagination and gave me a sense of wonder. They were one of the few avenues I had for connecting with my peers. It wasn't some waste of time that I regret when I look back as an adult.

Reading did that for me.

> They were one of the few avenues I had for connecting with my peers

Three hours a week isn't much, but it doesn't have to be gaming to connect with people of your age, isn't it?

> It wasn't some waste of time that I regret when I look back as an adult.

I don't think it's what worries the Chinese government. Or me.

I'm quite sure that e.g. a 1 hr/day limit would be a good thing. You can say "parents", but at one point children stop listening. Then what do you do?

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#72

Post by sudosysgen »

brodouevencode wrote: post #52
omarhaneef wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We restrict a lot of freedoms for the under-18 crowd though. Purely in terms of freedom -- without arguing for any other pros and cons -- is this worse than mandatory school attendance, or not being able to vote, or take medical decisions for themselves, or whatever else kids cannot do these days.

The big difference is that those decisions are pushed to the parents and not the state. Minors are not fully mentally equipped to make some of the decisions that adults have the right/ability to make.

Parents in many Western countries do not have the choice of what their child spends most of their day doing, as well as some medical procedures.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#73

Post by pessimizer »

brodouevencode wrote: post #52
omarhaneef wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We restrict a lot of freedoms for the under-18 crowd though. Purely in terms of freedom -- without arguing for any other pros and cons -- is this worse than mandatory school attendance, or not being able to vote, or take medical decisions for themselves, or whatever else kids cannot do these days.

The big difference is that those decisions are pushed to the parents and not the state. Minors are not fully mentally equipped to make some of the decisions that adults have the right/ability to make.

Parents don't get to decide whether their kids get to vote (or whether they go to school, in most of the west, without having to at least fill out some complicated forms or having to go to court.)

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#74

Post by brodouevencode »

pessimizer wrote: post #67
brodouevencode wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> apart from restricting freedom? Do you need any more than that? From the western point of view this is the apex reason. EDIT: To add - it is true in the west that minors don't enjoy all the same freedoms as adults. However for most things those decisions are made by the parents and not the state.

Just because you have one reason doesn't mean you shouldn't have others. There's nothing to discuss about whether it restricts freedom or not; not even the people who instituted the restriction would deny that it was a restriction.

Would you mind giving some examples of that? Sure I understand the classic "you can scream FIRE in a crowded theater" case, but what else are you thinking?

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#75

Post by brundolf »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #62
brundolf wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The time I spent in virtual worlds as a child remains one of the most cherished experiences of my life. They brought me happiness at times when nothing else did. They stoked my imagination and gave me a sense of wonder. They were one of the few avenues I had for connecting with my peers. It wasn't some waste of time that I regret when I look back as an adult.

That is interesting. I have a family friend, 20-years old and in college, who has maybe 1 or 2 friends in real life. All others are online gaming friends that he's had for years. Never met them. Of course he's gaming all the time because of that social network. I wish I knew the implications to such people when they are older. Is it a good influence? bad influence? doesn't matter? I don't know. Do you have any insigh…

It wasn't even online for me as a child, it was just a common ground I had with others at school that served as an avenue for friendship (such avenues were uncommon for me)

But I also know people like you describe, and I think that's perfectly legitimate too.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#76

Post by zachlatta »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #62
brundolf wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The time I spent in virtual worlds as a child remains one of the most cherished experiences of my life. They brought me happiness at times when nothing else did. They stoked my imagination and gave me a sense of wonder. They were one of the few avenues I had for connecting with my peers. It wasn't some waste of time that I regret when I look back as an adult.

That is interesting. I have a family friend, 20-years old and in college, who has maybe 1 or 2 friends in real life. All others are online gaming friends that he's had for years. Never met them. Of course he's gaming all the time because of that social network. I wish I knew the implications to such people when they are older. Is it a good influence? bad influence? doesn't matter? I don't know. Do you have any insigh…

I think online friendships can be just as meaningful and important as real-life friendships. I know they were / are for me.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#77

Post by brodouevencode »

pessimizer wrote: post #73
brodouevencode wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big difference is that those decisions are pushed to the parents and not the state. Minors are not fully mentally equipped to make some of the decisions that adults have the right/ability to make.

Parents don't get to decide whether their kids get to vote (or whether they go to school, in most of the west, without having to at least fill out some complicated forms or having to go to court.)

There are economic reasons for this (most minors aren't mentally fully developed enough to make some life changing decisions such as in voting/medical decisions/etc.)

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#78

Post by pessimizer »

Xplune13 wrote: post #57
allannienhuis wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not saying this is a good thing (in fact I think it's a silly rule), but: kids in the western world have their 'freedoms' restricted all of the time. There are plenty of things that kids can't participate in or see. Those are mandated by various levels of the state, for the safety/benefit of the child (ostensibly). And parents are constantly adjusting the things their kids can or can't do, often requiring kids to ask…

The main problem here is shoehorning of government between people's lives. Every parent has their own way of doing things. Some parents may allow kids to play longer, some may not but government should not be involved in this matter. I don't think this is a case of "because..... communists". This move is rightly criticized in my opinion.

> government should not be involved in this matter.

But this is just a declaration, not an argument (there's nothing wrong with that.) Should parents be able to let their children smoke or do porn?

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#79

Post by sudosysgen »

SonicScrub wrote: post #51
imbnwa wrote: post #11

From the perpsective of someone who doesn't know too much details, China's ability to nope its way out of the social excesses of liberal capitalism is somewhat amazing here. I'm guessing they took a look at Korea and Japan's well-known issues with young men isolating themselves enabled by the high availability of online gaming and said "nah". Both of those countries are also experiencing widening gaps in hetero gende…

I can see what problem they are trying to avoid, but this is treating symptoms and not problems. Why do so many young men in Japan and Korea (and heck, the West too although to a lesser degree) retreat from society into ? Narrow culture ideas of what "success" is, and personal relationships being dependent on reaching that definition of "success"? Lack of meaning found in career? Inability to find meaning in things o…

You could argue that recent Chinese crackdowns on bad working conditions and excessive cram schools do part of that. I agree it's nowhere near enough.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#80

Post by duxup »

tgv wrote: post #8

Anyone want to argue why this would be bad, apart from restricting freedom? BTW, nothing in the article about limits on TikTok or YouTube or whathaveyougot. That's as much opium as gaming, IMO.

Probably for the exact reason you note.

The idea here is they should be doing something better with their time right?

But as you note no limits on other time eating activities with their own negative effects.

I think it would be better to use a carrot here and hopefully encourage / try to encourage better choices... or even if they want to target games just outlaw the specifics of the problem, loot boxes, and so on.

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