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If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

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Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#31

Post by colordrops »

DeBraid wrote: post #14

Very few firms want to hire juniors, while nearly all firms desire senior-level talent. This manifests inflated job vacancies because so many firms have an evergreen job posting for "Senior Full Stack". Because talent is scarce these roles rarely get filled (hiring managers expect million-dollar candidates to accept $100-200k compensation). Also, because lots of software requires specific expertise, there are vacanci…

Most software positions at SpaceX, even those working on critical flight code, do not require aerospace knowledge. And SpaceX is not a great example as they hire a lot of interns and junior people willing to grind.

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#32

Post by aNoob7000 »

dimitrios1 wrote: post #25
DeBraid wrote: post #14

Very few firms want to hire juniors, while nearly all firms desire senior-level talent. This manifests inflated job vacancies because so many firms have an evergreen job posting for "Senior Full Stack". Because talent is scarce these roles rarely get filled (hiring managers expect million-dollar candidates to accept $100-200k compensation). Also, because lots of software requires specific expertise, there are vacanci…

To go in line with firms not wanting to hire juniors, I think generally firms do not want to invest heavily in employee training or education. I would, for example, happily make a shift from CRUD webdev and distributed networking to hardware and embedded and more lower level type work, but I doubt a firm would hire me near my current level and train me up.

I think you hit it on the nose. Companies don't want to invest in training their new hires. They just want someone to hit the ground running with as little hand holding as possible.

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#33

Post by gmadsen »

dimitrios1 wrote: post #25
DeBraid wrote: post #14

Very few firms want to hire juniors, while nearly all firms desire senior-level talent. This manifests inflated job vacancies because so many firms have an evergreen job posting for "Senior Full Stack". Because talent is scarce these roles rarely get filled (hiring managers expect million-dollar candidates to accept $100-200k compensation). Also, because lots of software requires specific expertise, there are vacanci…

To go in line with firms not wanting to hire juniors, I think generally firms do not want to invest heavily in employee training or education. I would, for example, happily make a shift from CRUD webdev and distributed networking to hardware and embedded and more lower level type work, but I doubt a firm would hire me near my current level and train me up.

which I think I'm fine with. I can learn skills on my own time. But I expect compensation to be commensurate with that

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#34

Post by southphillyman »

Only entry level software jobs(because of the weird x years requirements) and FAANG jobs (because of the required DS&A prep) are hard to get. Standard run of the mill Fortune 500 SWE jobs paying 100-200k are relatively easy to get once you have any experience at all.

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#35

Post by omarhaneef »

Nbox9 wrote: post #13

I think a lot of this is because our profession does not have an accepted universal bar everyone can jump over to be considered ‘qualified’. Every technical interview feels like rolling the dice in proving I am a competent developer. Giving me 50 minutes in a high pressure situation in an environment i am unfamiliar with and people I just meet will never product my best results, and then add to the fact that I could…

This is a great point.

In many other fields (medicine, law) people study a standardized body of knowledge, take a standard test and then get a license so they can do something others cannot.

However, this doesn't prevent a lot of awful and a lot of great people getting through. You would still need to interview a lot of them. I wonder if it sets a minimal level.

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#36

Post by gonehome »

faizshah wrote: post #24

When I was trying to get my first internship it took me 160 applications to get 1 interview, before that I applied every year for ~20 internships at the big names and never got 1 interview. Similarly for my senior year I applied to full time and internship positions it took me ~145 applications to get 2 interviews for internships (I would be interning after I graduate). I did the resume prep, went to the career fairs…

The lottery of front door applications is largely a waste of time.

The best way to get an interview if you didn’t go to Stanford or MIT (I didn’t) and haven’t yet worked at a famous company is to get a referral.

Which requires somehow making a friend or connection with someone at the place you want to be.

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#37

Post by commandlinefan »

Nbox9 wrote: post #13

I think a lot of this is because our profession does not have an accepted universal bar everyone can jump over to be considered ‘qualified’. Every technical interview feels like rolling the dice in proving I am a competent developer. Giving me 50 minutes in a high pressure situation in an environment i am unfamiliar with and people I just meet will never product my best results, and then add to the fact that I could…

That all makes sense, and it bothers me, too, but they do hire somebody eventually, which implies that somebody can produce quality results in 50 minutes in a high pressure situation in an environment they're unfamiliar with and people they just met.

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#38

Post by tomkat0789 »

Slashdot had a post about this topic a few years ago that I thought was colorful enough to save for posterity: https://developers.slashdot.org/story/18/03/14/1428242/deman...

The top comment seemed to capture the problem best:

"What is in extremely high demand is programmers with 20 years of experience in a technology that has been around for 5, no older than 19 and working for 20k a year.

And that demand will be high, forever.

Pay more and you get more. Pay this and what you get is code monkeys that couldn't find a better employer"

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#39

Post by selfhoster11 »

firebird84 wrote: post #10
larrymyers wrote: post #6

I think this article gets close, but glosses over one of the major issues in software dev hiring: the filtering process is all wrong. Front line recruiters tend to be non-technical, and can't pattern match for good candidates outside of very narrow criteria. (ex: They won't know that a person with strong C# skills will likely be just fine with Java.) Just getting your resume in front of actual people doing the hiring…

I think this is part of why getting hired through connections is even more important in this field, and why it's also interesting that so many members of the field look down on that very process. I agree it's not very meritocratic, but it DOES get people in front of people more qualified to pattern match their qualifications more quickly. The problem with getting more people in front of the actual hiring team is the…

> getting hired through connections (...) it's also interesting that so many members of the field look down on that very process.

I think the explanation is quite obvious. People who gravitate to this industry are not as social as those who gravitate to other industries, hence the disdain for (or rejection of) the process that leans heavily on something that doesn't easily come to them, that feels like something they shouldn't have to be dealing with.

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#40

Post by cwbrandsma »

dimitrios1 wrote: post #25
DeBraid wrote: post #14

Very few firms want to hire juniors, while nearly all firms desire senior-level talent. This manifests inflated job vacancies because so many firms have an evergreen job posting for "Senior Full Stack". Because talent is scarce these roles rarely get filled (hiring managers expect million-dollar candidates to accept $100-200k compensation). Also, because lots of software requires specific expertise, there are vacanci…

To go in line with firms not wanting to hire juniors, I think generally firms do not want to invest heavily in employee training or education. I would, for example, happily make a shift from CRUD webdev and distributed networking to hardware and embedded and more lower level type work, but I doubt a firm would hire me near my current level and train me up.

that is true for firms that never hire juniors. For me, I have a small team, we can only absorb a small number of juniors at any given time, because I have to have people free enough to train them up. And now, having lost most my seniors in my team to attrition, I'm hiring more mid-level developers (and hoping to find seniors)
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