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If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

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Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#11
post #7
post #2

everyone wants to underpay the talent and there's only limited amount of talent the price floor for really talented engineers is also high so high in the sense most startups can't afford those 300-400k salaries.

Outside of FAANG, who is paying $300k+ for a standard / non-management dev job?

Any big trendy startup that everyone knows the name of

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#12
post #7
post #2

everyone wants to underpay the talent and there's only limited amount of talent the price floor for really talented engineers is also high so high in the sense most startups can't afford those 300-400k salaries.

Outside of FAANG, who is paying $300k+ for a standard / non-management dev job?

pretty much any public company with salary plus rsus

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#13
I think a lot of this is because our profession does not have an accepted universal bar everyone can jump over to be considered ‘qualified’. Every technical interview feels like rolling the dice in proving I am a competent developer. Giving me 50 minutes in a high pressure situation in an environment i am unfamiliar with and people I just meet will never product my best results, and then add to the fact that I could be asked any question, and my ability to answer is it being ranked against other candidates. Maybe someone else _just_ did a similar question in another interview and it’s fresh on his mind. Maybe someone spend their entire career focusing on just this type of problem given in the interview, but the question in the interview is only partly related to the actual job.

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#14
Very few firms want to hire juniors, while nearly all firms desire senior-level talent.

This manifests inflated job vacancies because so many firms have an evergreen job posting for "Senior Full Stack". Because talent is scarce these roles rarely get filled (hiring managers expect million-dollar candidates to accept $100-200k compensation).

Also, because lots of software requires specific expertise, there are vacancies that can't be filled because of a knowledge gap (novel industries / projects, etc). For example, how could SpaceX possibly fill all their engineering roles? Surely money is not a limiting factor, but rather the limited supply of qualified expert rocket engineers?

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#15
post #7
post #2

everyone wants to underpay the talent and there's only limited amount of talent the price floor for really talented engineers is also high so high in the sense most startups can't afford those 300-400k salaries.

Outside of FAANG, who is paying $300k+ for a standard / non-management dev job?

A lot of companies. https://www.levels.fyi/charts.html#

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#16
post #3

It's hard to get a job because there are a lot of charlatans out there and it's often very hard to get rid of them once hired. Even worse is hiring someone merely mediocre and not actively harmful. That said of course the modern coding interview is I think only very loosely correlated with quality.

Most developers are mediocre, no way around that. And every developer was bad and mediocre before he became better. Companies that don't invest in employees don't really deserve performance anyway. Exception might be start-ups though, developers need to adjust expectations especially around pay.

I have seen enough software projects that certainly didn't fail because the devs lacked ability, there was always another reason and mainly that is leadership not knowing about the problem they try to solve.

A bit of an exception might be more artistic topics like video games. Here marketing and chance play a larger role than management.

Sure, maybe you do cutting edge research, here ability is important again, but that is truly exceptional.

That said, I don't think it is hard to get a job currently.

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#17
post #3

It's hard to get a job because there are a lot of charlatans out there and it's often very hard to get rid of them once hired. Even worse is hiring someone merely mediocre and not actively harmful. That said of course the modern coding interview is I think only very loosely correlated with quality.

> Even worse is hiring someone merely mediocre and not actively harmful. What's so bad about... mediocrity? For obvious statistical reasons, most companies, most jobs, and most people are mediocre (or worse).

> For obvious statistical reasons most companies [...] are mediocre

That's assuming companies exist on a one dimensional spectrum. The more prevailing wisdom is that companies will be mediocre or bad at many things, and good at a couple of particular things, and those couple of things are what make the company viable. This is the essence of a "unique selling point".

But to the point: most companies don't need great developers. Nowdays most medium sized businesses employ some tech staff, but IT is not core to their business.

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#18
I'm European so I'm unsure as to how the situation is in the states but here the situation is as follows: it's plenty of "developers" that taught themselves coding trough udemy or similar courses and can effectively code basic stuff in one or two languages. While I'm not trying in any way to devalue their knowledge or expertise in my experience a self taught developer will, on average, produce worse code and will ask for a lower pay. For employers though this doesn't matter because they mostly watch at the finished product and we all know "that guy" that can ship a feature in a week when testing/engineering alone would require two. It follows that there's a market saturation for entry level positions for low-end companies because they don't see the need to hire engineers or people with a degree that ask more while delivering "the same product". In my experience this changes when a company is more professional and there really is a lack of professional software engineers.

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#19
post #8
post #3

It's hard to get a job because there are a lot of charlatans out there and it's often very hard to get rid of them once hired. Even worse is hiring someone merely mediocre and not actively harmful. That said of course the modern coding interview is I think only very loosely correlated with quality.

I get the feeling that mediocre business should be able to run just fine on mediocre people. So it can't be that bad. Of course, every business likes to pretend they're the top and can only hire top talent.

I think the thing is there are a certain core number of critical things a business has to do where if they are continually messed up it’ll go out of business eg payrolls, strategy around capital expenditure etc. The issue might be that even small business involved in e-commerce mean cross over with these areas. For example storing sensitive data is dangerous. PHI/PII is digital toxic waste. Like with real toxic waste do you want trained experienced professionals or inexperienced charlatans.

Re: If software engineering is in demand, why is it so hard to get a job?

#20
post #8
post #3

It's hard to get a job because there are a lot of charlatans out there and it's often very hard to get rid of them once hired. Even worse is hiring someone merely mediocre and not actively harmful. That said of course the modern coding interview is I think only very loosely correlated with quality.

I get the feeling that mediocre business should be able to run just fine on mediocre people. So it can't be that bad. Of course, every business likes to pretend they're the top and can only hire top talent.

A team of well managed mediocre members will be less of a headache and ultimately more value to a company than a team of rockstars.

Besides all that, mediocre literally means average. You (collective) should be fine with average and stop overloading terms making general life more difficult than it needs to be.

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