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The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [pdf]

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Re: The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [pdf]

#31

Post by lostlogin »

desertraven wrote: post #10
snek_case wrote: post #6

I think it's because, in real life, you can tell who's looking at you and when. There's key components of body language that are based in who is paying attention to who. In a videoconference, this is all missing. You can't tell who's looking at you or not, so that mean anyone could be looking at you, so you act like everyone is looking at you all the time, you feel the need to control your presentation more, that cau…

I don't do video calls, but my partner does them often for work. The other day she mentioned that you're able to see who is looking at your video feed because their eyes looks directly at you (akin to them looking into the webcam). I'm not sure if she was mistaken, or if there's some kind of eye tracking/image processing stuff going on to do this. FYI it was Microsoft Teams.

How would this work when the call has many people on it?

And poor her - big Teams meeting are actually awful and large meeting with it are not good.

A lot of my team members were in Australia which appears to have dismal internet, a terrible connection to New Zealand, or both.

Re: The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [pdf]

#32

Post by vladvasiliu »

lostcolony wrote: post #24
desertraven wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't do video calls, but my partner does them often for work. The other day she mentioned that you're able to see who is looking at your video feed because their eyes looks directly at you (akin to them looking into the webcam). I'm not sure if she was mistaken, or if there's some kind of eye tracking/image processing stuff going on to do this. FYI it was Microsoft Teams.

Not at all true. For that to work, there would have to be, yes, eye tracking and a lot of image processing to change where your gaze appeared to be, but also knowledge of the physical size of the screen, the location of that particular person's feed on the screen, and where the screen is in relation to the camera. Now, it's possible that a lot of that could be inferred if it's assumed the screen is not moved in relat…

> In fact, I've had some people -never- 'meet' my gaze, because they never become self-aware enough to "oh, I should look at my camera when I am talking".

I'm not sure that looking into the camera is that important in a one-to-one setting. I'm specifically not talking about a "broadcast", like when you address an assembly and the communication is expected to go both ways.

To me, the reason why we look at a person when talking together is to see their reactions, and for them to see ours. Even in real life, and in particular when we speak, we don't look at the other person's eyes 100% of the time.

So in the case of video chat, where the "eyes" (the camera) is completely separate from the face, looking into the eyes cuts you off from their reaction, as you'll only see it in your peripheral vision. However, even if you see their eyes never meet yours, you're able to infer whether they're looking at your video or reading something else. And the most important part, their reactions, is still there.

To me, the whole point of video chat, as opposed to a phone call, is to have this additional channel of communication. If you're not looking at the person with whom you're talking, you might as well not use video at all.

Re: The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [pdf]

#33

Post by lostlogin »

e-clinton wrote: post #13
desertraven wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't do video calls, but my partner does them often for work. The other day she mentioned that you're able to see who is looking at your video feed because their eyes looks directly at you (akin to them looking into the webcam). I'm not sure if she was mistaken, or if there's some kind of eye tracking/image processing stuff going on to do this. FYI it was Microsoft Teams.

That’s not a feature of Teams. I know Microsoft had been testing processing eyes so that it looks like you’re straight into the camera, but no there’s no reliable way to do that based on who’s feed you’re watching.

Some Sony still cameras have sometimes done funny things with the eyes. A friend bought one in Japan which made the eyes of any subject larger. I can’t seem to find anything online about it, but it was very strange before you realised.

Re: The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [pdf]

#34

Post by fomine3 »

lostlogin wrote: post #33
e-clinton wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not a feature of Teams. I know Microsoft had been testing processing eyes so that it looks like you’re straight into the camera, but no there’s no reliable way to do that based on who’s feed you’re watching.

Some Sony still cameras have sometimes done funny things with the eyes. A friend bought one in Japan which made the eyes of any subject larger. I can’t seem to find anything online about it, but it was very strange before you realised.

Magnifying eyes is common on Purikura machine in Japan. Some cameras including smartphones implement similar feature. I believe all camera have plain shoot mode.

Re: The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [pdf]

#35

Post by DisjointedHunt »

I believe what we're witnessing here is a battle between the fashions of a time gone by overlapping with the fashions (and expectations) of a newer generation growing up with "asynchronous everything"

There was a time when you were paid to "be present" physically. ie, fill the seat in a room where discussions happened, however meaningful (or not) your contribution to the matter at hand. Time and technology changed and productivity of an individual, especially in CS disciplines far out grew expectations of organizational structure.

This is opinion only, but in this day and age, having meetings where there are a LOT of people talking and you're not an active participant seems to me an indication of skewed expectations of presence. You don't need to have your camera on all the time if your contribution to the meeting is simply saying nothing or even saying a few lines in the middle of an hour long discussion.

Maybe we need to stop thinking that "Virtual meetings" are simply digital manifestations of what people used to do in real life. The world has changed significantly and we are still doing what people did decades ago, only in newer ways and calling it progress. People "online" have vastly different presence than ones stuck in a physical room and can multi task . . walk in a park, do the dishes, play a video game on the couch and still participate constructively if the requirement is simple passive participation in a discussion (Which most meetings today seem to be)

I'd say we need a deeper probe into these thieves of productive time where people simply fill calendars with blocks of time or send of hundreds of emails a month with very little progress to show for it and dig into how we optimize that for all of humanities benefit.

Re: The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [pdf]

#36

Post by itronitron »

lostcolony wrote: post #24
desertraven wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't do video calls, but my partner does them often for work. The other day she mentioned that you're able to see who is looking at your video feed because their eyes looks directly at you (akin to them looking into the webcam). I'm not sure if she was mistaken, or if there's some kind of eye tracking/image processing stuff going on to do this. FYI it was Microsoft Teams.

Not at all true. For that to work, there would have to be, yes, eye tracking and a lot of image processing to change where your gaze appeared to be, but also knowledge of the physical size of the screen, the location of that particular person's feed on the screen, and where the screen is in relation to the camera. Now, it's possible that a lot of that could be inferred if it's assumed the screen is not moved in relat…

This video shows a project to create a one-way mirror that allows a person to view their monitor while 'looking at' the camera.

https://youtu.be/2AecAXinars

If I was planning to do any interviews I would definitely build and use this.

It also makes me wonder, when people are staring into the camera if they are looking at a photo instead of the camera lens.

Re: The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [pdf]

#37

Post by CyanBird »

kQq9oHeAz6wLLS wrote: post #22
Leszek wrote: post #20

Anecdotal, and I don't want it to sound like my example is intended to disprove this research or anyone else's experience, but I personally find it extremely fatiguing if people _don't_ turn on their video. More specifically, when I'm talking in a meeting or giving a presentation, I find it very helpful to see other people, see their reactions, see whether they laugh at jokes or look confused when I'm bad at explaini…

I've worked from home for a decade now, and I've found the people who want cameras on in meetings are the folks who don't normally work remote. They're not used to not seeing reactions, so it throws them when nobody has a camera on. The people who have worked remote for a while - at least since before covid - don't ever use their camera.

I have worked remote as freelance many years, and I just use the camera as a reciprocity tool, if you have your camera on, then I'll turn mine on, if yours is off, then I won't bother with it and I have no issue/lots of experience working/talking without the camera

Re: The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [pdf]

#38

Post by mirekrusin »

tkgally wrote: post #5

From the abstract: “[W]e propose and test a model where study condition (camera on versus off) was linked to daily feelings of fatigue; daily fatigue, in turn, was presumed to relate negatively to voice and engagement during virtual meetings. We further predict that gender and organizational tenure will moderate this relationship such that using a camera during virtual meetings will be more fatiguing for women and ne…

Avatars should be solution for you then, right?

Re: The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [pdf]

#39

Post by crubier »

desertraven wrote: post #10
snek_case wrote: post #6

I think it's because, in real life, you can tell who's looking at you and when. There's key components of body language that are based in who is paying attention to who. In a videoconference, this is all missing. You can't tell who's looking at you or not, so that mean anyone could be looking at you, so you act like everyone is looking at you all the time, you feel the need to control your presentation more, that cau…

I don't do video calls, but my partner does them often for work. The other day she mentioned that you're able to see who is looking at your video feed because their eyes looks directly at you (akin to them looking into the webcam). I'm not sure if she was mistaken, or if there's some kind of eye tracking/image processing stuff going on to do this. FYI it was Microsoft Teams.

Basic reasoning will tell you that people who “look at you” during a video call are actually people who look at their camera.

Re: The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [pdf]

#40

Post by izacus »

Leszek wrote: post #20

Anecdotal, and I don't want it to sound like my example is intended to disprove this research or anyone else's experience, but I personally find it extremely fatiguing if people _don't_ turn on their video. More specifically, when I'm talking in a meeting or giving a presentation, I find it very helpful to see other people, see their reactions, see whether they laugh at jokes or look confused when I'm bad at explaini…

> Anecdotal, and I don't want it to sound like my example is intended to disprove this research or anyone else's experience, but I personally find it extremely fatiguing if people _don't_ turn on their video.

Both can be true right? This study just studied the effect of persons own camera while participating. However, it doesn't really say much about how turning off camera affects other participants that are now left without the visual feedback.

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