Earlier quoted context omitted.
"genuine demand" is a true scotsman fallacy waiting to happen. Purchases are revealed preferences. That people have incoherent preferences doesn't mean you get to pontificate about what they should have.
Where is anyone pontificating about what people should have? I also don't see any mention of whether people's preferences are coherent or not. I didn't use the words 'genuine demand', but I did talk about genuine need. This isn't a true Scotsman fallacy because I am talking about the buyers ability to get their needs met, and not debating what qualifies as a genuine need - which is as you say, a revealed preference.
Why I'd never work for Google, Twitter, or Facebook
141–150 of 173 posts
Re: Why I'd never work for Google, Twitter, or Facebook
#142I work at Google. This isn't true. Yes, ads fund everything else. But they don't dominate. People in non-advertising teams hardly ever ask "how will this effect click-through rates?".
Let me ask you a specific question. Google navigation. It's web-based only, right? It requires Internet. It does not work in a rural area where your phone has no Internet. Why not make this application a standalone, to enhance user experience? To make user "happier"? So that it works even without Internet? Don't tell me it's not possible: many companies have done this, well before Google, so Google can do this too. The answer: Google intends to serve ads, and for this Internet is the key. You don't have an Internet connected phone? Google does not care about you: you will not see ads.
Re: Why I'd never work for Google, Twitter, or Facebook
#143 I’m not saying that my code needs to save the world or support
humanitarian causes, but it should at least be something that I like,
or I would use, or that I care about.
and i am not just talking about how awful search was. remember punch-the-monkey ads? i feel like google adwords is the second greatest internet invention.so i have to look at a couple of (non-intrusive, often related to my interest) ads, in order to pay for my access to any bit on information from anywhere in the world, in single-digit milliseconds?
and btw, google's self-driving cars? toootally about freeing-up more of your time to be able to watch even more ads -- because today, i don't look at ads (billboards) while i am driving..
(ask me why advertising is the only way to pay for a service like search at a scale like the internet -- with transaction costs and all that)
Re: Why I'd never work for Google, Twitter, or Facebook
#144I agree with this guy and it's pretty much why I prefer working in the defence industry where there's a purpose beyond selling ads.
Personally, I'd rather sell ads than make things that kill people.
Re: Why I'd never work for Google, Twitter, or Facebook
#145b) Advertising can (and should) get much better than it is. In the ideal form you would never see an ad until the moment you needed what it was selling and at that point the advertised product would be exactly what you needed. Working towards that goal is interesting, and teaches us at least as much about human intelligence as all the research in AI labs over the last 25 years.
Re: Why I'd never work for Google, Twitter, or Facebook
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
Where is anyone pontificating about what people should have? I also don't see any mention of whether people's preferences are coherent or not. I didn't use the words 'genuine demand', but I did talk about genuine need. This isn't a true Scotsman fallacy because I am talking about the buyers ability to get their needs met, and not debating what qualifies as a genuine need - which is as you say, a revealed preference.
What is the difference between need and want? Economically, there is no difference - there are simply goods that have less elastic demand curves and goods that have more elastic demand curves. The elasticity value that distinguishes "need" from "want" is totally arbitrary.
Also, just because economists haven't found a bright line between concepts doesn't mean they aren't distinct. I think there's a distinct difference between needing food, and wanting an xbox.
Re: Why I'd never work for Google, Twitter, or Facebook
#147Re: Why I'd never work for Google, Twitter, or Facebook
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I am talking about the buyers ability to get their needs met so a 'genuine need' being met is a conversion, right? isn't that what google's algorithms and advertisers optimize for? i think in your framework of evaluation, that makes better advertisement inherently more moral, and thus, working for a company that's trying to increase conversions an inherently moral task.
I don't see how I've equated a conversion to a genuine need being met. That would imply that nobody ever buys anything that isn't suited to their needs. I guess I'm falling for trolls here.
you aren't being trolled, get an introductory microecon text.
Re: Why I'd never work for Google, Twitter, or Facebook
#149I used to work on a product search engine. I had four, count them four distinct groups I had to please with my shopping search engine.
The first group was the user. If the users didn't like our site, find the item they were looking for, and buy it, we didn't make money and I got fired.
The second group were the merchants. The merchants wanted our fire hose of traffic to always be pointed at each of them individually, all the time, always increasing. If the merchants didn't like the traffic we were sending them and ended our relationship, we didn't make money and I got fired.
Also up there was the Googlebot, a customer of its own. If the Googlebot didn't like our site, it wouldn't send any traffic to us, we wouldn't send any traffic to our merchants, we wouldn't make any money and I would get fired.
Finally was the sysadmin. The sysadmin was the only guy who actually had to run the software I wrote. If he wasn't happy with it, our site would go down in the middle of the night, he wouldn't be able to get it back up without waking me up in the middle of the night, and I would feel really bad, and maybe even get fired.
The world isn't black and white. You can serve many masters. Some days what's better for the user takes priority, some days what's better for the sysadmin takes priority. Some days you smack a giant ass banner ad on the top of the site, other days you take down the giant ass banner ad because it's slowing down your site and driving users away and costing you more money than it brings in. There are gradations between the white-gloved consummate servant to the user and packing your users into the chute to get sheared, chopped, battered and fried.
The "users are products" meme is just so goddamn emo-sophomoric-simplistic-annoying. Blarghch.
Re: Why I'd never work for Google, Twitter, or Facebook
#150If you look at things that way, you might as well take the argument to it's extreme. Adwords doesn't actually make Google money, the payment processing system does. Are the ads just a way to get folks to use our payment processing system? Is search just a way to get folks to use our payment processing system? I don't see it that way.
Instead, I see my job as creating a search engine. I create a tool that helps people learn more about the world around them, more quickly and efficiently than they would have otherwise. For most queries, ads aren't even displayed. Making money is one way to bring more resources to that problem. So ads are a way to drive improvements in search rather than search being a way to drive eyeballs to ads. Often, the ads are a useful service in their own right which is an amazingly lucky opportunity.