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Why the Covid Vaccines Aren’t Dangerous

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Re: Why the Covid Vaccines Aren’t Dangerous

#51

Post by pjc50 »

hammock wrote: post #50
pjc50 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How good and available is the testing to prove you have natural immunity?

Antibody tests are instant and widely available. These tests are (I believe) what the natural immunity studies use to establish history of prior infection. Detractors will say that there is no established level of antibodies that means "immunity." Ironically, it is declining antibodies though (and no set threshold) that is being used to justify "booster" jabs around the world!

So how could a threshold be established?

Re: Why the Covid Vaccines Aren’t Dangerous

#52

Post by redis_mlc »

LurkingPenguin wrote: post #42

> For some people, it’s not so much the known risks that have them worried as the unknown. They ask, What if the mRNA vaccines alter our DNA, threatening our health far in the future? Will they affect our bodies in other, as yet undiscovered, ways? After all, some say, this is brand-new technology, and the F.D.A. has only fully approved the Pfizer vaccine. > As it turns out, though, mRNA technology isn’t especially n…

> not particularly concerned about the risk of undiscovered long-term side effects

We don't know the long-term effects of corona or corona vaccines on the female reproductive system, especially eggs.

Considering that if eggs are attacked, that's the end of us, so we should learn more and fast.

Re: Why the Covid Vaccines Aren’t Dangerous

#53

Post by ashtonkem »

Aachen wrote: post #46
ashtonkem wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The anti-vax crowd is currently taking horse deworming paste rather than get vaccinated. Saying that they won’t listen rational arguments about vaccine safety isn’t a huge leap. At this point it’s basically self evident.

One can always find extreme examples in the media (or online, if only enough people read this one of them will know someone). What percentage of the people not yet vaccinated is actually that kind of crazy?

Enough to be the majority of the calls to poison control.

Re: Why the Covid Vaccines Aren’t Dangerous

#54

Post by hammock »

pjc50 wrote: post #51
hammock wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Antibody tests are instant and widely available. These tests are (I believe) what the natural immunity studies use to establish history of prior infection. Detractors will say that there is no established level of antibodies that means "immunity." Ironically, it is declining antibodies though (and no set threshold) that is being used to justify "booster" jabs around the world!

So how could a threshold be established?

Immunity is more complicated than that. Antibody titers is not the metric we would want.

Re: Why the Covid Vaccines Aren’t Dangerous

#55

Post by dev_tty01 »

hammock wrote: post #35
dev_tty01 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true. Vaccinated and previously infected people are much less likely to be reinfected than unvaccinated previously infected. Here is a recent study: https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-pr... Reinfection was twice as likely among unvaccinated previously infected. The more recent data includes the effects of the delta variant. So, the risk of Covid is much higher and the risk of adverse effect…

>risk of Covid is much higher and the risk of adverse effects are approximately zero for getting the vaccine. Where is your data for this? What is the risk of a naturally immune person catching Covid, and being either a)symptomatic, b)hospitalized, or c)killed? How does this risk compare to the risk of a serious adverse event or long-term consequence such as autoimmune disease from the vaccine in a healthy young man?

You asserted that there was no benefit to getting the vaccine for previously infected. I pointed you to a reference that shows that that is not true. The original article to which we are all responding pointed out the minuscule levels of risk associated with getting the vaccine.

With respect to autoimmune disease, I think we are seeing that long covid is becoming a significant health concern among even healthy young people with only a mild response to Covid infection. Here is an example article:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/as-vaccines-do-their-work-focus...

Relevant quote: "Long Covid—a term referring to symptoms that linger for weeks or months beyond infection—affects between 10% and 30% of people who catch the virus, including those with mild or asymptomatic infections, according to experts. In some cases, symptoms persist for more than a year."

At any rate, I imagine none of this will persuade you, so I simply wish you good luck and hope you remain healthy. My strongest hope is that things can improve enough that we can all go back to arguing about linux user interface schemes.

Re: Why the Covid Vaccines Aren’t Dangerous

#56

Post by honkycat »

hammock wrote: post #35
dev_tty01 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true. Vaccinated and previously infected people are much less likely to be reinfected than unvaccinated previously infected. Here is a recent study: https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-pr... Reinfection was twice as likely among unvaccinated previously infected. The more recent data includes the effects of the delta variant. So, the risk of Covid is much higher and the risk of adverse effect…

>risk of Covid is much higher and the risk of adverse effects are approximately zero for getting the vaccine. Where is your data for this? What is the risk of a naturally immune person catching Covid, and being either a)symptomatic, b)hospitalized, or c)killed? How does this risk compare to the risk of a serious adverse event or long-term consequence such as autoimmune disease from the vaccine in a healthy young man?

> How does this risk compare to the risk of a serious adverse event or long-term consequence such as autoimmune disease from the vaccine in a healthy young man?

Where is your data that serious adverse effects are even possible beyond an absurdly tiny statistic?

And how does that compare to the risk of a break-through re-infection and the well documented long-term health issues people have developed with Covid?

Don't talk like the data is on your side when it isn't. You are being childish. Full stop.

Re: Why the Covid Vaccines Aren’t Dangerous

#57

Post by User23 »

zozbot234 wrote: post #48
User23 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being dishonest isn't a hallmark of rational thinking either. The Covid-19 vaccines are observably dangerous to some persons[1], however rare that danger may be. The rational thing to do is to weigh the risk versus the benefit. If you really want hesitant persons to get vaccinated, you're going to get a lot farther by being honest about the risks of the vaccines, the risks of Covid-19, and showing why, for their circ…

The risk of myocarditis and other adverse effects from getting COVID itself is multiple orders of magnitude higher than anything related to the vaccine. This should be a no-brainer if there ever was one. You do not want to be wihout vaccine immunity, even if you have been infected in the past.

> You do not want to be wihout vaccine immunity, even if you have been infected in the past.

Why? I don't understand how that claim can be true unless somehow being exposed to the spike protein from the virus will fail to produce immunity while at the same time being exposed to the spike protein from having the mRNA make your cells synthesize it will. I'm genuinely curious so if there is some new science you can point me to I'd be grateful.

Edit: The Covid-19 vaccine is by far the most dangerous prescribed vaccine, accounting for 80.53% of reported vaccine deaths[1], so if natural acquired immunity is a real thing then how is it irrational for those who are already immune to decline to take it?

And what's with the hostility to curiosity?

[1] https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/datarequest/D8;jsessionid=...

In case that link dies when the session expires, here's the top 10:

  COVID19 VACCINE (COVID19) 5,595 80.53%
  PNEUMOCOCCAL, 13-VALENT VACCINE (PREVNAR) (PNC13) 322 4.63%
  HAEMOPHILUS B CONJUGATE VACCINE (HIBV) 255 3.67%
  ROTAVIRUS VACCINE, LIVE, ORAL, PENTAVALENT (RV5) 251 3.61%
  INFLUENZA VIRUS VACCINE, TRIVALENT (INJECTED) (FLU3(SEASONAL)) 210 3.02%
  DIPHTHERIA AND TETANUS TOXOIDS AND ACELLULAR PERTUSSIS VACCINE + HEPATITIS B + INACTIVATED POLIOVIRUS VACCINE (DTAPHEPBIP) 201 2.89%
  INFLUENZA VIRUS VACCINE, NO BRAND NAME (FLUX(SEASONAL)) 186 2.68%
  ZOSTER VACCINE (VARZOS) 184 2.65%
  HEPATITIS B VACCINE (HEP) 173 2.49%
  PNEUMOCOCCAL, 7-VALENT VACCINE (PREVNAR) (PNC) 171 2.46%

Re: Why the Covid Vaccines Aren’t Dangerous

#59

Post by honkycat »

User23 wrote: post #17
void_mint wrote: post #4

Those that believe the vaccines are dangerous aren't swayed by rational thinking.

Being dishonest isn't a hallmark of rational thinking either. The Covid-19 vaccines are observably dangerous to some persons[1], however rare that danger may be. The rational thing to do is to weigh the risk versus the benefit. If you really want hesitant persons to get vaccinated, you're going to get a lot farther by being honest about the risks of the vaccines, the risks of Covid-19, and showing why, for their circ…

Linking to a page to report adverse effects is not an adequate citation that they happen with any reasonable consistency to be opposed to getting a vaccine.

Re: Why the Covid Vaccines Aren’t Dangerous

#60

Post by honkycat »

void_mint wrote: post #27
User23 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being dishonest isn't a hallmark of rational thinking either. The Covid-19 vaccines are observably dangerous to some persons[1], however rare that danger may be. The rational thing to do is to weigh the risk versus the benefit. If you really want hesitant persons to get vaccinated, you're going to get a lot farther by being honest about the risks of the vaccines, the risks of Covid-19, and showing why, for their circ…

> The Covid-19 vaccines are observably dangerous Generally when people refer to something as "dangerous", they don't mean "To a very very small subset of people, and in very very specific and rare circumstances".

Bees are dangerous, kill them all.
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