An Afghan minister who became a bicycle courier in Germany • Hacker News Board

Re: An Afghan minister who became a bicycle courier in Germany

#21

Post by BoorishBears » Sun, Aug 29, 2021, 2:52 PM UTC

baybal2 wrote: post #8

dogman144 wrote: post #5

The DoD used to hire Afghans who could speak English to train soldiers in certain scenarios. Common instances of this included civil engineers in AFG who couldn’t get licensed here, that drove Uber and spent a few months training Americans somewhere in the Louisiana woods to make ends meet. Such a waste.

> Common instances of this included civil engineers in AFG who couldn’t get licensed here, Welcome to reality of 3rd world immigrants to the West. Near complete untransferabbility of career, skills, and credentials.

My father had no trouble transferring his education into getting his PhD.

My mother's skills carried her to a doctorate in nursing

My uncle's medical skills carried over well enough for him to be an orthopedic surgeon

My aunt's carried well enough to run her own medical clinic in Norway

Do you think they're learning to count sticks or something to get their degrees in other countries? Why wouldn't thinks as internal as learned skills transfer?

Credentials might not map 1:1 but they're also backed by something... everything you learned to earn them

Re: An Afghan minister who became a bicycle courier in Germany

#22

Post by BoorishBears » Sun, Aug 29, 2021, 2:53 PM UTC

quonn wrote: post #18

AdrianB1 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Language is probably the biggest roadblock in getting a job in Germany and most people ignore it. German is not easy (my grandmother was a German teacher, some of my family members are of German descent and none of us is speaking any decent German) and Germans are more xenophobic than they will ever admit. Even in my American company meetings with German people sometimes we have very awkward moments when the Germans…

So Germans speaking their own language in their own country is now xenophobic? (referring to your first paragraph) It‘s true that with the exception of big companies or certain industries much German is spoken at work. Exactly like Spanish in Spain, French in France, Italian in Italy or Portuguese in Portugal. I‘m German myself, mostly living outside Germany. I try to fit in as good as possible, including making an e…

There were two statements:

- Knowing German is important

- Germans are more xenophobic than they care to admit

Why are you forcing them to be one then attacking that false premise?

Re: An Afghan minister who became a bicycle courier in Germany

#23

Post by ausudhz » Sun, Aug 29, 2021, 2:55 PM UTC

quonn wrote: post #18

AdrianB1 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Language is probably the biggest roadblock in getting a job in Germany and most people ignore it. German is not easy (my grandmother was a German teacher, some of my family members are of German descent and none of us is speaking any decent German) and Germans are more xenophobic than they will ever admit. Even in my American company meetings with German people sometimes we have very awkward moments when the Germans…

So Germans speaking their own language in their own country is now xenophobic? (referring to your first paragraph) It‘s true that with the exception of big companies or certain industries much German is spoken at work. Exactly like Spanish in Spain, French in France, Italian in Italy or Portuguese in Portugal. I‘m German myself, mostly living outside Germany. I try to fit in as good as possible, including making an e…

Xenophobia has been an increasing concern in Europe in the last 10 years and nobody wants to admin it. There are "new-nazi" movement in Greece and Germany for example which of course target (not only but mostly) immigrants.

I guess is totally disconnected from the language discussion.

Re: An Afghan minister who became a bicycle courier in Germany

#24

Post by et2o » Sun, Aug 29, 2021, 2:56 PM UTC

AdrianB1 wrote: post #13

baybal2 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> were doing low paid jobs in the west This fails to mention that US plumbers were getting higher salaries than Russian engineers, or higher on average than most of people in the West. In my small hometown in Russia, everybody can't get more amused that the best wage for immigrants there is paid by agricultural college diplomas. The biggest mansions in the town are of: 1. local gang boss, 2. agronomists who went to U…

You fail to mention parity. I worked for $100/month 25 years ago and that was the average income in the country, a 2 room (1 bedroom, 1 living room) apartment in Bucharest was $8,000 (I bought one). Yes, nominally an US plumber was earning more, but his living condition were below mine at that time. I am taking my example because we used to be part of the Eastern Block, Russian engineers were earning a bit more. Now…

Plumbers in NYC can make >200k

Re: An Afghan minister who became a bicycle courier in Germany

#25

Post by AdrianB1 » Sun, Aug 29, 2021, 2:56 PM UTC

quonn wrote: post #18

AdrianB1 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Language is probably the biggest roadblock in getting a job in Germany and most people ignore it. German is not easy (my grandmother was a German teacher, some of my family members are of German descent and none of us is speaking any decent German) and Germans are more xenophobic than they will ever admit. Even in my American company meetings with German people sometimes we have very awkward moments when the Germans…

So Germans speaking their own language in their own country is now xenophobic? (referring to your first paragraph) It‘s true that with the exception of big companies or certain industries much German is spoken at work. Exactly like Spanish in Spain, French in France, Italian in Italy or Portuguese in Portugal. I‘m German myself, mostly living outside Germany. I try to fit in as good as possible, including making an e…

No, Germans that know English refusing to speak to people that only know English and Pashto is xenophobic. I saw that many times in Germany (mostly in Munich), people refusing to talk to you in English even if they knew the language.

Re: An Afghan minister who became a bicycle courier in Germany

#26

Post by quonn » Sun, Aug 29, 2021, 2:56 PM UTC

BoorishBears wrote: post #22

quonn wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Germans speaking their own language in their own country is now xenophobic? (referring to your first paragraph) It‘s true that with the exception of big companies or certain industries much German is spoken at work. Exactly like Spanish in Spain, French in France, Italian in Italy or Portuguese in Portugal. I‘m German myself, mostly living outside Germany. I try to fit in as good as possible, including making an e…

There were two statements: - Knowing German is important - Germans are more xenophobic than they care to admit Why are you forcing them to be one then attacking that false premise?

Because these statements are logically connected in the form of an argument and even an example is giving.

Re: An Afghan minister who became a bicycle courier in Germany

#27

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Aug 29, 2021, 2:57 PM UTC

AdrianB1 wrote: post #13

baybal2 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> were doing low paid jobs in the west This fails to mention that US plumbers were getting higher salaries than Russian engineers, or higher on average than most of people in the West. In my small hometown in Russia, everybody can't get more amused that the best wage for immigrants there is paid by agricultural college diplomas. The biggest mansions in the town are of: 1. local gang boss, 2. agronomists who went to U…

You fail to mention parity. I worked for $100/month 25 years ago and that was the average income in the country, a 2 room (1 bedroom, 1 living room) apartment in Bucharest was $8,000 (I bought one). Yes, nominally an US plumber was earning more, but his living condition were below mine at that time. I am taking my example because we used to be part of the Eastern Block, Russian engineers were earning a bit more. Now…

[deleted]

Re: An Afghan minister who became a bicycle courier in Germany

#28

Post by quonn » Sun, Aug 29, 2021, 3:00 PM UTC

AdrianB1 wrote: post #25

quonn wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Germans speaking their own language in their own country is now xenophobic? (referring to your first paragraph) It‘s true that with the exception of big companies or certain industries much German is spoken at work. Exactly like Spanish in Spain, French in France, Italian in Italy or Portuguese in Portugal. I‘m German myself, mostly living outside Germany. I try to fit in as good as possible, including making an e…

No, Germans that know English refusing to speak to people that only know English and Pashto is xenophobic. I saw that many times in Germany (mostly in Munich), people refusing to talk to you in English even if they knew the language.

Can you please describe the situation? Are you saying someone asked a question in English and got a reply in German? Or are you saying there was an office with 20 German-speaking employees and one English speaking one and then much of the informal talk was in German? It‘s true, it‘s like that. And that‘s not xenophobic. It may be impolite, depending on the situation. It‘s not specific to Germany as anyone working in other places in Europe knows.

Some people don‘t talk English because they lack confidence.

Re: An Afghan minister who became a bicycle courier in Germany

#29

Post by ausudhz » Sun, Aug 29, 2021, 3:00 PM UTC

BoorishBears wrote: post #21

baybal2 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Common instances of this included civil engineers in AFG who couldn’t get licensed here, Welcome to reality of 3rd world immigrants to the West. Near complete untransferabbility of career, skills, and credentials.

My father had no trouble transferring his education into getting his PhD. My mother's skills carried her to a doctorate in nursing My uncle's medical skills carried over well enough for him to be an orthopedic surgeon My aunt's carried well enough to run her own medical clinic in Norway Do you think they're learning to count sticks or something to get their degrees in other countries? Why wouldn't thinks as internal…

It's not transferable 1:1, some college / university are not even recognized abroad. I had a friend of mine from Thailand that couldn't get recognized her master degree in marketing in an European country.

So she enrolled again to go through the same stuff she learned just to get the valid degree spendable in the county

Re: An Afghan minister who became a bicycle courier in Germany

#30

Post by baybal2 » Sun, Aug 29, 2021, 3:05 PM UTC

et2o wrote: post #24

AdrianB1 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You fail to mention parity. I worked for $100/month 25 years ago and that was the average income in the country, a 2 room (1 bedroom, 1 living room) apartment in Bucharest was $8,000 (I bought one). Yes, nominally an US plumber was earning more, but his living condition were below mine at that time. I am taking my example because we used to be part of the Eastern Block, Russian engineers were earning a bit more. Now…

Plumbers in NYC can make >200k

In fact, that's more than the prime majority of bankers will ever see.

Computer science/coding seemed to have travelled the same trajectory before the stigma faded. A very in demand trade that nobody really wanted to do despite basics being available to many.

Back at home, people, including my parents, were categorically refusing to believe that starting salary of a banker could be as low as below $30k (per year) in US, or Canada.

That is after many spent their entire life savings, and sold their houses to give their children "business" eduction in the West.