Does feeding garden birds do more harm than good? • Hacker News Board

Re: Does feeding garden birds do more harm than good?

#61

Post by watwut » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 8:07 PM UTC

mattkrause wrote: post #53

lucb1e wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> can be found here For the low price of only $35.95! Not even sure it contains much. The abstract says (replacing some needlessly obscure words because not everyone's native language is english): > Direct effects upon [fed animals] have garnered most research interest, and are generally positive in leading to increased survival, productivity and hence population growth. However, we argue that the wider implications…

FWIW, virtually nobody pays the sticker price for a single article. Many researchers have some kind of institutional access (e.g., through a library). If you don’t, shoot one of the authors an email and ask for a copy. Not only will they certainly send you one—-they don’t see a penny of that money—-but you’ll also make some harried grad student’s day.

Does not make the price not absurd. And then you have researchers who have to ask friend of friend or otherwise hunt down articles.

These prices is how rich institutions gets even more advantage over those in less rich parts of world. And that is pretty much it.

Re: Does feeding garden birds do more harm than good?

#62

Post by mattkrause » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 8:36 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #61

mattkrause wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, virtually nobody pays the sticker price for a single article. Many researchers have some kind of institutional access (e.g., through a library). If you don’t, shoot one of the authors an email and ask for a copy. Not only will they certainly send you one—-they don’t see a penny of that money—-but you’ll also make some harried grad student’s day.

Does not make the price not absurd. And then you have researchers who have to ask friend of friend or otherwise hunt down articles. These prices is how rich institutions gets even more advantage over those in less rich parts of world. And that is pretty much it.

The institution doesn't get that money: literally not a single dime of it goes to the authors, their departments, or their institutions. It goes to publishers.

You don't need to be friends-of-friends either. Search for the authors and if the PDF is not on their webpages, shoot one of them an email. All it has to say is "I'm interested in your paper [title], but don't have access to [journal]. Could you send me a reprint/preprint? Thanks."

It makes my day when people do this. Getting a paper published is a huge slog with overwhelmingly negative feedback, so it feels great to know that someone actually cares about what you wrote.

Re: Does feeding garden birds do more harm than good?

#63

Post by lostlogin » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 8:55 PM UTC

foxhop wrote: post #3

If you use Permaculture Principles you will exponentially grown biomass and animals including birds which visit your plot daily. I don't have a bird feeder and yet a huge variety of birds feed on my garden. It's just a matter of selectively sparing some plants over others. For example many small birds will eat kale and brasica seeds which are tiny and black like a poppy and each plant produces a huge abundance. Anoth…

This is neat. Just doing nothing with a section of the garden seems to help. Let things grown and leave them alone and all sorts of stuff appears. We now have weta, which I like (at a distance), though others are less keen.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wētā

Re: Does feeding garden birds do more harm than good?

#64

Post by moistly » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 9:04 PM UTC

foxhop wrote: post #3

If you use Permaculture Principles you will exponentially grown biomass and animals including birds which visit your plot daily. I don't have a bird feeder and yet a huge variety of birds feed on my garden. It's just a matter of selectively sparing some plants over others. For example many small birds will eat kale and brasica seeds which are tiny and black like a poppy and each plant produces a huge abundance. Anoth…

How many chickens should I plan on for a household of two? We dispose of just a few handfuls of veggie scrapings & trim and a coffee puck each day, some fatty scraps of meat over the course of a week, and not much else. Currently composting but could well do a few chickens…

Re: Does feeding garden birds do more harm than good?

#65

Post by hellbannedguy » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 9:12 PM UTC

foxhop wrote: post #7

birbs wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mechanism described in the article is that human assistance benefits more dominant species over less dominant ones, which increases the dominant species population and further suppresses the less dominant species. How is your garden fundamentally different than using a bird feeder regarding this specific interaction?

The type and size of seed. Larger birds focus on larger (higher energy) seed sold at the stores. The plants I select to go to seed have small seeds and feed small birds. Just one of many observations I've had the pleasure of collecting anecdotal evidence on.

I have a 1 ft. x 1 ft. platform with 1 inch sides, which I hang from a huge Oak tree.

I put in peanuts, and wild bird seed.

The black birds, and the squirels only eat the peanuts.

The smaller bids eat the seeds.

I have only seen the Squirrels chase away the black birds, but there are days when it's the other way around.

The smaller birds wait until the peanuts are mostly gone, and they go in.

Since I put in my bird feeder, I have noticed more birds of all species some using my property. I have had a small bird (I think a finch) set up nest on my front porch 3 times. The nests are a few yards from the feeder, and bath.

I have noticed small birds eating spiders under my eaves.

Since man has built houses, and paved land; I can't see how a bird feeder does much of anything besides bring in a lot of species. Peanuts will bring in rats too. Squirels bury the peanuts, and rats will dig them up. Squirels seem to forget where they buried their stash?

I probally over feed with the peanuts. I've noticed the black birds will squawk for peanuts around 4 pm., and the Squirels practically tell me to feed them. There was one who used to rattle tge screen door.

I've noticed this year in particular, the watering platform is used by more birds, and insects. I could be me. I might be thinking they are thirsty because of the drought, but I just see a lot of action in that water. (If you supply water, try to change it daily. There's some bacteria going around.)

Re: Does feeding garden birds do more harm than good?

#66

Post by PaulDavisThe1st » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 9:41 PM UTC

sofixa wrote: post #27

11235813213455 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely prefer to eat garlic raw, you can let it in your mouth for a while, saliva will make it less strong. But cooking it is killing too much of its important macro-nutriments. I don't eat pastas or other starch because with experience I feel like they're "glueing" my digestive system and make digestion less efficient. My diet is mostly fruit currently (tons of free figs along my rides, persimmons, clementines…

> I was picky like your son when young, but fortunately I changed my diet later That's a weird statement to make after describing how you only eat very peculiar food - raw leaves, fruit and some veggies. ( Who the heck eats cucumbers nom-raw?)

> Who the heck eats cucumbers nom-raw?

pickles.

Re: Does feeding garden birds do more harm than good?

#67

Post by jakear » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 9:51 PM UTC

hellbannedguy wrote: post #65

foxhop wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The type and size of seed. Larger birds focus on larger (higher energy) seed sold at the stores. The plants I select to go to seed have small seeds and feed small birds. Just one of many observations I've had the pleasure of collecting anecdotal evidence on.

I have a 1 ft. x 1 ft. platform with 1 inch sides, which I hang from a huge Oak tree. I put in peanuts, and wild bird seed. The black birds, and the squirels only eat the peanuts. The smaller bids eat the seeds. I have only seen the Squirrels chase away the black birds, but there are days when it's the other way around. The smaller birds wait until the peanuts are mostly gone, and they go in. Since I put in my bird f…

> If you supply water, try to change it daily. There's some bacteria going around.

I know the answer is obvious, but I don’t know what it is. Why is promoting animal growth better than promoting bacteria growth?

Re: Does feeding garden birds do more harm than good?

#68

Post by tomcam » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 9:55 PM UTC

foxhop wrote: post #3

If you use Permaculture Principles you will exponentially grown biomass and animals including birds which visit your plot daily. I don't have a bird feeder and yet a huge variety of birds feed on my garden. It's just a matter of selectively sparing some plants over others. For example many small birds will eat kale and brasica seeds which are tiny and black like a poppy and each plant produces a huge abundance. Anoth…

We raise chickens and find them incredibly endearing and entertaining.

Re: Does feeding garden birds do more harm than good?

#69

Post by foxhop » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 10:02 PM UTC

moistly wrote: post #64

foxhop wrote: post #3

If you use Permaculture Principles you will exponentially grown biomass and animals including birds which visit your plot daily. I don't have a bird feeder and yet a huge variety of birds feed on my garden. It's just a matter of selectively sparing some plants over others. For example many small birds will eat kale and brasica seeds which are tiny and black like a poppy and each plant produces a huge abundance. Anoth…

How many chickens should I plan on for a household of two? We dispose of just a few handfuls of veggie scrapings & trim and a coffee puck each day, some fatty scraps of meat over the course of a week, and not much else. Currently composting but could well do a few chickens…

Chickens like to be in flocks, I would say 6 hens would be good for two people, yields 6 eggs per day, you'll never buy eggs again (assuming you continue the process). They can be picky so my recommendation is to also maintain a compost area they may access. The soil life breaks it down into other forms which the birds may use. Good luck!

One last video for you to get pumped up: https://youtu.be/fydmrz5EThw

Re: Does feeding garden birds do more harm than good?

#70

Post by lucb1e » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 10:05 PM UTC

mattkrause wrote: post #62

watwut wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does not make the price not absurd. And then you have researchers who have to ask friend of friend or otherwise hunt down articles. These prices is how rich institutions gets even more advantage over those in less rich parts of world. And that is pretty much it.

The institution doesn't get that money: literally not a single dime of it goes to the authors, their departments, or their institutions. It goes to publishers. You don't need to be friends-of-friends either. Search for the authors and if the PDF is not on their webpages, shoot one of them an email. All it has to say is "I'm interested in your paper [title], but don't have access to [journal]. Could you send me a repr…

> It makes my day when people do this. Getting a paper published is a huge slog with overwhelmingly negative feedback, so it feels great to know that someone actually cares about what you wrote.

Wait, I don't get this. Probably this is very dumb, pardon my nonacademianess. My first thought is: then why don't you just host it on your own website? Then you can see exactly how many people download it. Heck, it could even be in an accessible HTML format (I'd love this instead of basically-image formats like PDF) and you can check if people leave the page after 5 seconds or if there are 30 minutes worth of mouse movement events. Not to say that you need to track this all identifiably, but the server could ingest "user still active on page" events and aggregate that per IP address or something until the session goes cold, then convert it to a mere "visitor #9001, stayed 27 minutes". I'm probably already overthinking this because I've never seen anyone host their own paper in the first place, nor any other format than PDF. Why doesn't anyone do that?

Sending an email to request the paper is much slower than just having access (be that through sci-hub, a friend that you can see is online and whose university still supports the publisher system, etc.), so I don't think that's a good solution even if I understand perfectly why you love to hear of your readers. Imagine you had to email the authors of every link here on HN every time you think a headline sounds interesting; it's just not a solution to paywalls with ridiculous costs per article.