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I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

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Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#271

Post by swiley »

ecf wrote: post #266
iammisc wrote: post #257

Every state believes they are America's dumping ground. That doesn't change the fact that the overall rate of homelessness pre covid had been declining for years in america yet increasing only on the west coast. That alone contradicts the premise.

> had been declining for years in America yet increasing only on the west coast > That alone contradicts the premise Other states throw their homeless on busses bound for CA so they can have declining numbers while only the west is growing. That’s literally the exact premise.

From what Ive heard only 25% or so of the homeless came to CA from somewhere else.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#272

Post by ecf »

swiley wrote: post #271
ecf wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> had been declining for years in America yet increasing only on the west coast > That alone contradicts the premise Other states throw their homeless on busses bound for CA so they can have declining numbers while only the west is growing. That’s literally the exact premise.

From what Ive heard only 25% or so of the homeless came to CA from somewhere else.

Even 1% would result in West coast numbers increasing while statisticians from other areas can proclaim theirs are decreasing.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#273

Post by garmaine »

chii wrote: post #256
garmaine wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Salaries go up to match cost of living increases for the area, but your actual cost of living is locked in to a prior rate, so you profit in that way.

> your actual cost of living is locked in your own imputed rent, if you owned your own place is not "locked in". By living in the property, you are giving up receiving the rent that could've been generated. This means a general rental increase also affects property owners - it's just invisible and often not counted since no money changes hand.

Which you received through your increased salary. You don’t get to double count it.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#274

Post by dukeyukey »

postalrat wrote: post #234
pydry wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Every year it seems like many millions of dollars more are spent on this issue but it keeps getting visibly worse. Because home prices and rents keep going up. Homelessness is an inevitable side effect of that. Funneling money on rehab rather than providing places to actually live cant fix that. It's attacking a symptom not the cause. However, attacking the cause (property prices/rents) would make a lot of very rich…

Why do you favor blaming rent for homelessness instead of lack of jobs that pay well enough? Why can some people afford the rent while others can't? If you are after a single root cause of homelessness you will be disappointed. Unless you only care to push an agenda.

> Why do you favor blaming rent for homelessness instead of lack of jobs that pay well enough?

In most countries, homelessness is concentrated in wealthy, but expensive cities e.g. London, NYC. There are plenty of well-paying jobs (even relatively unskilled ones) but high rents more than make up for it. I felt significantly more housing-secure living in a cheap area with a shitty job than in an expensive area with a good job.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#275

Post by sershe »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #191
sershe wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you reconcile "national shortage of housing" being the cause with California being the most expensive state with the most homeless? Shouldn't a national problem cause people to migrate AWAY from the expensive housing? Housing in the US (median, not SF) is one of the cheapest relative to income among the developed countries, AFAIK. Also, I can tell you from my own example that it's a chicken and egg problem. If…

Homeless people often go where the weather is tolerable. Many homeless people prefer to camp outside rather than stay in the shelter system. California is the overall best state to camp outside long-term and year-round. It then becomes a recipe for remaining homeless because the housing is so expensive. It's easy to camp out, not easy to afford rent. If you can't afford housing anywhere in the US, going someplace you…

Housing is cheap in much of the country though, and really cheap in some areas. Also, there are warm states that are not CA that don't have the problem (relatively speaking), and there are far colder states like NY or WA that do (ditto for locations within states). Why don't NY homeless move to e.g. Detroit? Far cheaper housing, comparable climate.

The only people who wouldn't benefit from this under nationwide housing shortage theory are indeed those who cannot afford any housing at all because they eh, don't have their shit together on any level. But then, walkable housing nationwide is not going to fix that.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#276

Post by diogenescynic »

aazaa wrote: post #243

Maybe a shift of perspective is in order. What if the homeless "problem" is merely the most visible symptom of a modern depression that has been underway for many years? You expect a homeless problem in a depression. You expect drug use to cripple large segments of society in a depression. You don't expect the problems that come with a depression to be fixable. And you expect those with means to jealously guard them…

>visible symptom of a modern depression that has been underway for many years?

There's never been more prosperity. The visibly homeless are mentally ill or on drugs. It's due to our lack of healthcare access and ability to exist on the fringes of society if one so chooses. More people in foster care end up homeless than graduate high school.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#277

Post by sershe »

germinalphrase wrote: post #265
sershe wrote: post #185

The only reason I don't laugh quite out loud is that I have a misfortune of living in Seattle and my wife refuses to move until something "actually happens" to us, as opposed to stuff going on 15 blocks away. California is not suffering from others' "broken" policy, but only from its own. It's an unpopular opinion, but I think it's great that there are people out there who concentrate the entire problem around themse…

What large city can you live in where nothing “actually happens” somewhere within 15 blocks?

By stuff going on 15 blocks away I don't mean an odd car window smashed. I mean e.g. giant homeless camps (to the point where e.g. running events in the local park are canceled due to safety concerns), people shoplifting on industrial scale, break-ins, or e.g. people operating a loud, smoke-belching machine shop at night in a park right under somebody's windows.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#278

Post by sershe »

beanjuice wrote: post #240
sershe wrote: post #185

The only reason I don't laugh quite out loud is that I have a misfortune of living in Seattle and my wife refuses to move until something "actually happens" to us, as opposed to stuff going on 15 blocks away. California is not suffering from others' "broken" policy, but only from its own. It's an unpopular opinion, but I think it's great that there are people out there who concentrate the entire problem around themse…

Would you mind elaborating on what you are afraid of happening, and what you think the cause is?

Blight and crime. And as I mentioned in the other fork, I grew up in Russia during the 90ies collapse, so my standards for lack of blight and crime are relatively low ;)

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#279

Post by DoreenMichele »

sershe wrote: post #275
DoreenMichele wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Homeless people often go where the weather is tolerable. Many homeless people prefer to camp outside rather than stay in the shelter system. California is the overall best state to camp outside long-term and year-round. It then becomes a recipe for remaining homeless because the housing is so expensive. It's easy to camp out, not easy to afford rent. If you can't afford housing anywhere in the US, going someplace you…

Housing is cheap in much of the country though, and really cheap in some areas. Also, there are warm states that are not CA that don't have the problem (relatively speaking), and there are far colder states like NY or WA that do (ditto for locations within states). Why don't NY homeless move to e.g. Detroit? Far cheaper housing, comparable climate. The only people who wouldn't benefit from this under nationwide housi…

It tends to be cheap where there's no grocery stores, no jobs, etc. If you have to drive a long way for everything you need, it's not a cheap lifestyle, even if your rent is relatively low.

Nationwide walkable housing would, in fact, fix it for some people, in part by bringing down the cost of housing and transit to a level they could reach.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#280

Post by DoreenMichele »

betwixthewires wrote: post #270
DoreenMichele wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's fine that they exist. The problem is we've zoned out of existence other options. These don't make for car-free living in walkable neighborhoods. And they don't appreciate in value the way standard housing typically does.

Can you give me some examples of housing that has been zoned out of existence that you have in mind? Apartment buildings, duplexes and renting a room are not illegal in the vast majority of municipalities. RVs absolutely make for walkable neighborhoods, and everyone gets a little garden space too if they want. Some RV parks even have a grocery store inside. I thought we were looking at solutions to homelessness? Why…

Parking minimums and street width minimums are a huge issue. They are an active barrier to building an old fashioned, walkable, mixed use downtown and actively undermine the health of such places that still do exist in some areas.

There's lots of literature on that fact.

Set backs and other zoning changes also mean you often cannot build townhomes right up to the lot line, even if older townhomes right up against the lot line dominate the street in question. They are grandfathered in and don't have to be torn down, but you can't build more like it. This typically makes such homes highly prized and expensive and out of the reach of most people.

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