Buoyant wants to solve middle-mile delivery with cargo airships • Hacker News Board

Re: Buoyant wants to solve middle-mile delivery with cargo airships

#71

Post by hilbert42 » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 4:14 PM UTC

giantrobot wrote: post #32

I'm a huge fan of lighter than air craft and have been for many years, decades now. So saying that, I don't see this system ever actually working in the real world. * If the departure and arrival points currently exist, they likely have roads available. Even the best case autonomous airship isn't going to be cheaper than a truck. * With a maximum cargo capacity of 650lbs whatever cargo loaded onto an airship will lik…

I'm a fan of airships too and have been for decades, still I think I have to agree with your points. That said, some people obviously don't including those with money to chuck at the problem. What do you say to this report?

https://interestingengineering.com/ufo-russian-cargo-airship

With lifting and speed specifications like that it'd be a game-changer if they ever pulled it off. It seems to me if its high proposed speed were ever attained in practice then it'd also be useful for passenger services for continental-sized distances (say 1000 to 2000 miles) where its potentially quick embarking/disembarking would be advantageous over normal air travel.

(I bookmarked this url some months ago, I think I may have even gotten it from a HN story.)

Re: Buoyant wants to solve middle-mile delivery with cargo airships

#72

Post by hilbert42 » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 5:01 PM UTC

bombcar wrote: post #36

chrisbrandow wrote: post #35

First question that comes to my mind is, “How much helium will this use if it scales”. Helium is still non-renewable, and it’s still pretty critical for MRIs among other critical analytical instruments. Probably insignificant. But it’s still the question I have.

Hydrogen can be made safe, and is renewable. For something like this to work we need to move past the Hindenburg.

"Hydrogen can be made safe, and is renewable. For something like this to work we need to move past the Hindenburg."

Seems to me you're right. In some ways it's a damn shame that reporters and movie cameras were at Lakehurst that fateful day, unfortunately their presence set back airship development at least a half century.

The WWI matter that nosianu has raised about how hard it was to bring down hydrogen-filled airships due to the difficulty of igniting the hydrogen is well known and it ought to be a starting point for its reintroduction. New containment materials combined with what we've learned from the Hindenburg should also do the trick. On a regulatory point, if you kept hydrogen to cargo-only airships and where possible even routed them around heavily populated areas (at least until well proven) we could see hydrogen make a comeback.

Also, Hydrogen has that other advantage, it has about 8% more lift than helium. It occurred to me hydrogen's risk could be further mitigated if it were used in combination with helium where they shared the lifting - the hydrogen able of being vented, etc. and the helium bagged separately as permanent/primary buoyancy. Reckon that with a fresh look we've many new options to explore.

Re: Buoyant wants to solve middle-mile delivery with cargo airships

#73

Post by giantrobot » Sun, Aug 29, 2021, 6:43 AM UTC

hilbert42 wrote: post #71

giantrobot wrote: post #32

I'm a huge fan of lighter than air craft and have been for many years, decades now. So saying that, I don't see this system ever actually working in the real world. * If the departure and arrival points currently exist, they likely have roads available. Even the best case autonomous airship isn't going to be cheaper than a truck. * With a maximum cargo capacity of 650lbs whatever cargo loaded onto an airship will lik…

I'm a fan of airships too and have been for decades, still I think I have to agree with your points. That said, some people obviously don't including those with money to chuck at the problem. What do you say to this report? https://interestingengineering.com/ufo-russian-cargo-airship With lifting and speed specifications like that it'd be a game-changer if they ever pulled it off. It seems to me if its high proposed…

I'm extremely skeptical about that proposal. The sky crane is a nice idea on paper but in practice I don't think it will work. A fully loaded 20' shipping container can mass thirty tons (US). Even a light wind could turn a container on the airship's crane into a giant building destroying flail. There's also issues with static discharge that could be extremely hazardous and difficult to work around. Suggesting the airship will just use its crane to lift containers without extra infrastructure is really fantastical.

Then there's the fantastic promises of payload and speed. Even with their combination of hot air and helium for lift they would have to be ridiculously large to lift the proposed payloads. Until they've got an actual working full sized model I just don't believe their numbers. The Hidenberg was stupendously large and only had a payload of about ten tons using hydrogen, that's not even a single fully loaded 20' shipping container.