Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional • Hacker News Board

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#381

Post by Managor » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 3:16 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #303

Hermitian909 wrote: post #207

As someone who's family has been in the bay area for over a century I was disappointed the article didn't mention any of the old money families who've controlled SF politics for decades. This article[0] mentions some, though not all of the families (The Aliotos aren't mentioned here for example). While I haven't fully kept up, I know in the 90s at least a quarter of the financial district was held by two families. Th…

There you have it. Why is San Francisco’s city government so dysfunctional? Because no matter how bad it gets and how much liberal policies fail, voters can convince themselves that the problem is “moneyed elites” and “ not enough liberalism.” Just amazing.

The word you're looking for is progressivism, not liberalism. American liberalism is just progressivism wearing liberalism as a skinsuit.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#382

Post by estebank » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 3:29 PM UTC

proc0 wrote: post #212

627467 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived in south china pre-2000, in southern Europe and in south America. The first (and only) time I've seen human excrement on the streets was 2 years ago in San Francisco. It's very... odd. I mean, I don't think we should obsessed with the human feces part of it, but it would be nice to understand what's going on that it is so visible.

Let me explain. The authorities there made it ok for people to do that. Police will not arrest you. You can use the streets as your bathroom. They even announced it on the local news (around 2014-2015). Either they are too stupid to realize people would take advantage of that, or they are malevolent and wanted to destroy SF for whatever political reason.

Alternative solution: have bathrooms available.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#383

Post by runarberg » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 3:49 PM UTC

digisign wrote: post #304

runarberg wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a pretty bold statement. And as the poet said: “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence” . Do you have evidence to back up your claim that low prosecution rates actually leads to more crimes? Your current anecdotes sound like hearsay to me, I would need to see some credible sources before I can start believing them.

Sealioning: http://wondermark.com/1k62

Sealioning is a form of online harassment. For this to count I would have to chase the OP around constantly bugging them to engage me.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#384

Post by runarberg » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 3:57 PM UTC

kortilla wrote: post #310

runarberg wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a pretty bold statement. And as the poet said: “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence” . Do you have evidence to back up your claim that low prosecution rates actually leads to more crimes? Your current anecdotes sound like hearsay to me, I would need to see some credible sources before I can start believing them.

Lol. Now it’s bold to suggest no enforcement of the law leads to people violating the law more frequently.

First you’re putting words in my mouth. We are talking about petty crime not the entire law, and we are talking about prosecution not all enforcement. Prosecution is not the only way to enforce the law, so nobody is talking about “no enforcement”.

And the statement is because it is a falsifiable with no evidence to back it up. Wegner’s statement about plate tectonics was bold by the same measure (although he offered some evidence; but apparently not enough).

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#385

Post by tptacek » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 4:24 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #303

Hermitian909 wrote: post #207

As someone who's family has been in the bay area for over a century I was disappointed the article didn't mention any of the old money families who've controlled SF politics for decades. This article[0] mentions some, though not all of the families (The Aliotos aren't mentioned here for example). While I haven't fully kept up, I know in the 90s at least a quarter of the financial district was held by two families. Th…

There you have it. Why is San Francisco’s city government so dysfunctional? Because no matter how bad it gets and how much liberal policies fail, voters can convince themselves that the problem is “moneyed elites” and “ not enough liberalism.” Just amazing.

I read the article last night. I lived there from '98-'01, during a somewhat different cultural moment, in the Willie Brown era. It was if anything more corrupt and dysfunctional. The music writer Bill Wyman wrote a good article on this back in 1999, which probably still holds up:

https://www.salon.com/1999/11/03/sf/

I don't think there's that much ideology to it. The place is corrupt and dysfunctional because it's conditioned itself to be corrupt and dysfunctional. Brownback's Kansas government had similar problems; same in Ohio.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#386

Post by WalterBright » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 4:27 PM UTC

srj wrote: post #347

WalterBright wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s played on my mind many times over the years, how do you help someone in that scenario? Offer them help. If they refuse, respect their rights, and move on.

How does someone have the right to take public property as their own? Maybe if the areas were designated but we are talking about people who eschew shelter.

> How does someone have the right to take public property as their own?

They don't.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#387

Post by srswtf123 » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 4:27 PM UTC

bpodgursky wrote: post #254

srswtf123 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is, in all honesty, a terrifying point of view. Forcing people to take part in a society that has already rejected them and conform to someone else’s view of normal, healthy, stable, etc., that, to me, would be literal torture. I don’t consider it humane to torture people. How do you feel about all the busywork jobs that enable so so much more squandering of human potential? Should all those folks be forced to l…

We have different views about what is humane. I struggle to understand yours, but that's OK.

I hope you never are homeless, drug addicted, or mentally ill. I have been all of these things. I can tell you first-hand forcing people to comply makes things worse.

That you don't care about someone's wishes is deeply indicative of your own moral character -- or lack thereof. That we can't even agree to disagree turns my stomach a bit. I'm deeply disappointed, and you've made it very clear to me that I need to walk away from this "community".

So, my final thought will simply be this:

Silicon Valley and their enablers, through their arrogance, short sightedness, and dare I say.. general lack of humanity are creating a dystopian nightmare. In many places, that nightmare already exists in full force. That you don't or can't see it doesn't matter. It's well underway and it won't leave any of us untouched.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#388

Post by hitekker » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 4:29 PM UTC

zumu wrote: post #330

muh_gradle wrote: post #22

I was thinking of making the move to SF for the higher income. Seeing the past few years of the city have completely changed my mind though. Chesa Boudin physically makes my head hurt so much.

If you want to open a Walgreen's in the FiDi, I'd advise against it, but assuming you're a tech worker, it's a pretty pleasant place to live. While it all depends on your values, it's very walkable for a US city, relatively safe, and has mild weather. Homelessness is of course an issue as it is for most west coast cities.

SF is great once you convince yourself that crime, lawlessness and misery are "values" rather than the result of poor governance. When I lived in SF, it was fun watching who could admit the government wasn't great, and who did extreme mental gymnastics to avoid unpleasant reality.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#389

Post by archagon » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 4:52 PM UTC

fnmk wrote: post #332

rayiner wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There you have it. Why is San Francisco’s city government so dysfunctional? Because no matter how bad it gets and how much liberal policies fail, voters can convince themselves that the problem is “moneyed elites” and “ not enough liberalism.” Just amazing.

It is kind of ironic, isn't it? These days Tucker Carlson talks about pardoning Assange, the deep state and that house prices in SF are too high for the middle class. Literally Noam Chomsky could be saying the same things. But people still believe that Republicans will take away your freedoms and Democrats will solve everything (I don't believe either will solve much).

The Republicans are actively eroding voting rights around the country (see Texas) and actually tried to annul the last election. Gee, I wonder why people believe that.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#390

Post by lhorie » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 5:08 PM UTC

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #280

lhorie wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have never been mugged or robbed or had any physical violence occur, or be threatened. You're lucky (and not that I want to intentionally bring up this card, but I bet you're a burly caucasian male). I saw a guy jump over the Bart ticket gate on literally my first night in SF. I've witnessed multiple retail theft incidents. I've been spat on, literally out of nowhere. A coworker had his garage broken into and a b…

> You're lucky (and not that I want to intentionally bring up this card, but I bet you're a burly caucasian male). Stop this. I'm a non-burly non-caucasian male and this (being mugged, robbed, or undergoing physical violence) has never happened to me even once. Maybe you're unlucky? Drawing from your personal anecdotes gets tiring. > I've witnessed multiple retail theft incidents. I've been spat on, literally out of…

> Drawing from your personal anecdotes gets tiring.

Perhaps that says more about the impact of high crime stats on real people than my individual luck. The reality remains that various forms of crime are deeply intertwined with various forms of inequality (be it correlation between race/gender/etc and violence/harrassment, or geographic segregation and property crime)

I've lived in Toronto and Sao Paulo, so I have quite a bit of perspective on how far the crime-o-meter range stretches. Even if I did accept that my experience in SF was some sort of freaky statistical anomaly (and I don't, since even y'all "lucky" folks acknowledge being victims of break-ins), that can't fully explain why my volume of bad experiences in SF is so much higher than that of living near a huge slum in a 3rd world city with a ridiculously high crime rate.

Objectively speaking, "it's not so bad" my ass :)