Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional • Hacker News Board

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#361

Post by pasabagi » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 12:28 PM UTC

throwawaylinux wrote: post #253

poorjohnmacafee wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why assume that the ultra wealthy should care about the lesser citizens? What about all the rampant looting in NYC? I don't think they cared then. Maybe many of them just aren't pro American. In almost every other country the media/politics carefully try to project some national pride and sense of unity; it's actually the opposite here in the US isn't it?

Actually the US is not exceptional in that regard. Media and politicians sometimes use patriotic and popular sentiment (usually empty gestures like sport) to boost their popularity, but around the world in most western countries the tone is increasingly that they should be ashamed of themselves, of their original (secular) sin, and by no means should they take any pride or celebration in their society or its achievem…

I guess the problem is, if you're interested in history, you often do find there's lots to be proud of in a nation's past, but it's usually the precise opposite of the people you can find statues of. So when you're proud of your nations past, what past? I think there's a lot of admirable stuff in british history, for example, but the streets and statues generally memorialize a bunch of really shitty people.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#362

Post by pclmulqdq » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 12:32 PM UTC

tshaddox wrote: post #143

runarberg wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because people vote for it, it doesn’t mean it is what people want. There is also the option that the voting system is faulty and that the voters don’t have a real option. As an example, the city of Reykjavík has 23 representatives in the city council. They are voted proportionally from parties represented distinct views. San Francisco board of supervisors have 11 members, less then half of Reykjavík’s despite h…

> Just because people vote for it, it doesn’t mean it is what people want. This is really key, and should be a bigger topic of discussion in mainstream political philosophy. Governments that purport to be democracies ought to be responsible for aligning policies and outcomes with the preferences of the electorate. It's far too common for people to dismiss literally any problem in an ostensibly democratic jurisdiction…

There is accountability at the ballot box, but only if you're willing to vote for the other guy. SF has been under one- party rule for a long time, and if incumbents don't fear for their jobs, they have no incentive to do what they say.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#363

Post by gedy » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 12:36 PM UTC

space_fountain wrote: post #283

88913527 wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your tax burden would stay the same, relative to future buyers, if prices stay flat. At which some point, they're bound to plateau. How many people or institutions will buy single family homes once they're $10 million each, but the median household income is still somewhere around $100k? It's a subtle point, but the benefits of Prop 13 aren't a function of time, they're a function of appreciation. It just so happens…

I think inflationary monetary policy (a good thing) more or less guarantees that in dollar terms (the thing that matters for prop 13) prices will go up every year. I think prop c does allow for some price adjustment for inflation, but it has a crazily low cap

Property taxes can go up 2% per year. That's reasonable from an inflation perspective if you are just living there. (Supposedly inflation has been that low for a long time, but doesn't feel like it in real cost of living)

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#364

Post by imtringued » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 12:42 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #232

Hermitian909 wrote: post #207

As someone who's family has been in the bay area for over a century I was disappointed the article didn't mention any of the old money families who've controlled SF politics for decades. This article[0] mentions some, though not all of the families (The Aliotos aren't mentioned here for example). While I haven't fully kept up, I know in the 90s at least a quarter of the financial district was held by two families. Th…

If SF politics is really controlled by a wealthy cabal then why have they allowed the situation to deteriorate so much? What possible benefit could they derive from homelessness, dirty streets, rampant property crime, and a dysfunctional government? The wealthy people who control NYC politics seem less tolerant of such issues.

SF has extremely high land values and the value of the land isn't going down. If you bought land 50 years ago you became rich off the work of other people.

Property taxes have been frozen which basically just throws more money into their throats.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#365

Post by undergrowth54 » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 12:42 PM UTC

France_is_bacon wrote: post #300

nradov wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If SF politics is really controlled by a wealthy cabal then why have they allowed the situation to deteriorate so much? What possible benefit could they derive from homelessness, dirty streets, rampant property crime, and a dysfunctional government? The wealthy people who control NYC politics seem less tolerant of such issues.

As far as I'm concerned, the super wealthy do everything in their power to pit different factions against each other. Feminists against manosphere, Dems vs Republicans, anti-war against pro-war, rural against urban. I bet the weathly, with billions at their disposal, are masters at astroturfing. This means that they create public interest groups to push an agenda, but they keep their own participation hidden. This wa…

It is rather uncommon to believe that people in a society where everyone can publish their opinions must be artificially manipulated into conflict and dissent. I’d think that harmony and consent must instead be artificially manufactured. I’m curious about your life experience here.

> that everyone forgets about the most significant problem in the USA - the top 5% of the country own over 80% of the wealth

I’ve heard this problem discussed on Joe Rogan’s podcast (the most popular podcast) and by Jordan Peterson (who is fairly popular among the center-right). What percentage of Americans would you say are unaware that wealth inequality is a problem?

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

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Post by imtringued » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 12:45 PM UTC

bsder wrote: post #228

proc0 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I haven't heard of that, but it seems like this kind of corruption is the most possible explanation.

Possibly, but I don't think its required. The Irvine Company is very similar in Southern California. It seems like they own everything when you want office real estate. So, it's corruption, right? Well, except that if you talk to any contractors (like your internet provider installer) you find that they love The Irvine Company because there is someone who has a little bit of competence for them to talk to when they n…

Land is already a monopoly in its own right. There is no real estate without a monopoly even if it is a tiny one.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

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Post by cobbzilla » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 12:50 PM UTC

iammisc wrote: post #263

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For better or for worse, homelessness in America can largely be attributed to Regan-era changes in policy [1] that prevented people from being committed against their will to psychiatric hospitals. It was done in the name of human rights, but naturally there were ulterior motives. It's time we reverted it. About 10% of humans have been addicts across most cultures throughout most of recorded human history, and they d…

The first step against mental institutions was by Kennedy who's family had bad experiences with the mental health system. Blaming this solely on Reagan is misguided. Reagan just went with the flow.

With respect to the Kennedy’s bad experience, are you referring to Rosemary’s involuntary commitment and subsequent lobotomy? That was pretty awful, was there something more?

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#368

Post by jquery » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 12:59 PM UTC

I have lived in San Francisco for 12 years and I find the Republican talking points littered through this thread disappointing. Recently a cousin of mine asked me if I’m going to “flee SF” any time soon. I was somewhat confused by the question, but I guess I shouldn’t be. This entire thread is just sad.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

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Post by chrisseaton » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:09 PM UTC

ghomrassen wrote: post #352

srswtf123 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is, in all honesty, a terrifying point of view. Forcing people to take part in a society that has already rejected them and conform to someone else’s view of normal, healthy, stable, etc., that, to me, would be literal torture. I don’t consider it humane to torture people. How do you feel about all the busywork jobs that enable so so much more squandering of human potential? Should all those folks be forced to l…

Your logic can be extended indefinitely. Are we torturing pedophiles by forcing them not to abuse children? What about murderers? Society coalesced for a reason.

You’re comparing homeless people to pedophiles and murderers.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#370

Post by ethagknight » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 1:11 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #303

Hermitian909 wrote: post #207

As someone who's family has been in the bay area for over a century I was disappointed the article didn't mention any of the old money families who've controlled SF politics for decades. This article[0] mentions some, though not all of the families (The Aliotos aren't mentioned here for example). While I haven't fully kept up, I know in the 90s at least a quarter of the financial district was held by two families. Th…

There you have it. Why is San Francisco’s city government so dysfunctional? Because no matter how bad it gets and how much liberal policies fail, voters can convince themselves that the problem is “moneyed elites” and “ not enough liberalism.” Just amazing.

Well, it could be true, but not necessarily in a right wing vs left wing sense. People with stupid amounts of money playing stupid political games, propping up people who have no business being in political leadership but are funded to be “our person in office” with some specific agenda but no real attention to the actual roles (buying authority but not desiring or able to actually manage). I don’t know, sounds a lot like USA in the Middle East.