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Some Vermonters turn to ayahuasca as a 'last resort' to heal

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Re: Some Vermonters turn to ayahuasca as a 'last resort' to heal

#71

Post by hcarvalhoalves »

Focusing only in the substance w/ pharmaceutical interest, with a reductionist view, may be missing the point IMO.

In the Amazon basin you'll find different tribes, with different ceremonies, where ayahuasca may be administered in different ways and associated with other things (e.g. "rapé"), not to mention how the particular shaman (or "pajé") conducts the ceremony and the overall setting (being in the middle of the jungle, at night, is an experience in itself if you're not used to it).

Re: Some Vermonters turn to ayahuasca as a 'last resort' to heal

#72

Post by aazaa »

> Today, the Van Tuinens said, they're healthy, sober and doing much better. They live together in their family's Waterbury home, where they have a Sunday ritual of hiking in the woods, meditating and discussing their emotions. Last year they founded a nonprofit, Cultivating Connections, to help other Vermonters struggling with addiction, mental illness and past trauma.

Hiking in the woods should not be underestimated. Every positive outcome described in the article can flow from peeling oneself away from a screen, leaving an artificial environment, getting lost every once in a while, and moving one's body toward a goal.

Re: Some Vermonters turn to ayahuasca as a 'last resort' to heal

#73

Post by [deleted] »

kubb wrote: post #68

Man, I remember doing shrooms in Amsterdam, it was such a great time. At some point I had this feeling as if all of my worries were “figured out” and all that was left was a sense of calm optimism about the future. Great experience, would recommend. Maybe this is something that I should do once per year as a ritual: go up there, eat a bag of mushrooms, wander around, feel grateful for existing and at peace with the w…

[deleted]

Re: Some Vermonters turn to ayahuasca as a 'last resort' to heal

#74

Post by nick__m »

the-dude wrote: post #59
azinman2 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t need to go to Peru to get it (there’s plenty of drugs in the Bay Area). He moved there to fundamentally change his life.

Ok. Does he consume it regulary?

Even if you want you can't!

Tolerance to hallucinogens grows exponentially. If one take a blotter of LSD, wait 24h, then take another blotter, it will feel like [¼,½] of the original dose. If one wait another 24h and take another dose it will feel like [⅛,¼] and so on. With LSD one must wait a few day between doses to feel the full effects.

With psilocybin, the period of abstinence required to feel the full effect is measured in weeks.

I have no personal experience with Ayahuasca, but administered daily it is probably not too different from medical treatment with Isocarboxazid as the psychedelic component should dissapear and the MAO inhibition should persist.

Re: Some Vermonters turn to ayahuasca as a 'last resort' to heal

#75

Post by sojournerc »

kubb wrote: post #68

Man, I remember doing shrooms in Amsterdam, it was such a great time. At some point I had this feeling as if all of my worries were “figured out” and all that was left was a sense of calm optimism about the future. Great experience, would recommend. Maybe this is something that I should do once per year as a ritual: go up there, eat a bag of mushrooms, wander around, feel grateful for existing and at peace with the w…

I definitely think it should be a ritual, instead of merely recreational (for the fun of it). I think of shrooms like an intentional reset button.

I don't do crazy amounts and use the experience as a way to explore my life and my emotions, often with my wife.

Re: Some Vermonters turn to ayahuasca as a 'last resort' to heal

#76

Post by twobitshifter »

aazaa wrote: post #72

> Today, the Van Tuinens said, they're healthy, sober and doing much better. They live together in their family's Waterbury home, where they have a Sunday ritual of hiking in the woods, meditating and discussing their emotions. Last year they founded a nonprofit, Cultivating Connections, to help other Vermonters struggling with addiction, mental illness and past trauma. Hiking in the woods should not be underestimate…

Be sure to read to the end, the conclusion takes some wind out of the sails of the ayuhuasca cure all argument.

> 'Most Proficient Mind' Neither Rory nor Ryan Van Tuinen took a straight and unwavering path to recovery after his ayahuasca experience. Since Seven Days first interviewed them in January 2020, Rory quit methadone treatments. He relapsed, overdosed twice and nearly died before checking himself into rehab. Despite those setbacks, he's been off opioids and methadone again since April 2020, and he credits ayahuasca with saving his life.

Ryan has quit alcohol and all prescription pharmaceuticals; he said he barely even drinks coffee anymore.

"My habits with substances are healthier than they've ever been," he said. "For the first time in my life, I feel like my sober mind is the most proficient mind to handle life."

Such reports are powerful — and, of course, anecdotal. Despite his belief in the potential benefits of psychedelics, Johnson, the Johns Hopkins professor and researcher, warned of "selling some snake oil" based on limited data. He believes that any therapeutic use of psychedelics should be "solidly based in empirical science."

Re: Some Vermonters turn to ayahuasca as a 'last resort' to heal

#77

Post by bayesianbot »

twobitshifter wrote: post #76
aazaa wrote: post #72

> Today, the Van Tuinens said, they're healthy, sober and doing much better. They live together in their family's Waterbury home, where they have a Sunday ritual of hiking in the woods, meditating and discussing their emotions. Last year they founded a nonprofit, Cultivating Connections, to help other Vermonters struggling with addiction, mental illness and past trauma. Hiking in the woods should not be underestimate…

Be sure to read to the end, the conclusion takes some wind out of the sails of the ayuhuasca cure all argument. > 'Most Proficient Mind' Neither Rory nor Ryan Van Tuinen took a straight and unwavering path to recovery after his ayahuasca experience. Since Seven Days first interviewed them in January 2020, Rory quit methadone treatments. He relapsed, overdosed twice and nearly died before checking himself into rehab.…

That might feel like ayahuasca wasn't the cure-all, but hear me out.

I was an absolute alcoholic in beginning of 2018 (and for 10+ yeas before that). I knew I was probably going to die really early from drinking, but I had no motivation to stop. I did not see it happening at all.

Then I had few psychedelic trips with friend on mountains, and everything changed. I was still an alcoholic, I still drank way too much. But suddenly I had all the motivation needed, I knew I had to stop, I wanted to stop, I knew I will stop. If I could explain the experience, I had seen far in the future the ways my life could go, and at that point I made the easiest choice ever, that I'll have to pick the sober route.

It didn't happen instantly, I was still addicted, I had a lot of setbacks, alcohol is powerful drug. It took me few years, but now I've limited my alcohol use to tiny tiny percentage of what it used to be.

I know it was the psychedelics, because how my thinking changed in that special time, a complete 180 turn, biggest part being the night of the best LSD trip I had. If you were to ask my friends, they would not attribute it to psychedelics. In their mind I was alcoholic, went to mountains, came back alcoholic, and then few years later wasn't really drinking anymore. They'd be wrong, but I can understand how they feel that way.

Re: Some Vermonters turn to ayahuasca as a 'last resort' to heal

#78

Post by 8bitsrule »

Taking a psychedelic can lead to understandings that might otherwise not be available in other ways (in your time/culture/location) for many reasons. A single experience that 'transcends human understanding' may unlock long-lasting solutions.

Getting out of Plato's cave is not soon forgotten.

Re: Some Vermonters turn to ayahuasca as a 'last resort' to heal

#79

Post by kubb »

sojournerc wrote: post #75
kubb wrote: post #68

Man, I remember doing shrooms in Amsterdam, it was such a great time. At some point I had this feeling as if all of my worries were “figured out” and all that was left was a sense of calm optimism about the future. Great experience, would recommend. Maybe this is something that I should do once per year as a ritual: go up there, eat a bag of mushrooms, wander around, feel grateful for existing and at peace with the w…

I definitely think it should be a ritual, instead of merely recreational (for the fun of it). I think of shrooms like an intentional reset button. I don't do crazy amounts and use the experience as a way to explore my life and my emotions, often with my wife.

It’s nice that you can do it with your wife, having a trusted close person to keep you company probably enriches the experience.

Re: Some Vermonters turn to ayahuasca as a 'last resort' to heal

#80

Post by SturgeonsLaw »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #42

I simultaneously believe two things are likely true: 1. Psychedelic research holds some interesting possibilities for advancing the fields of psychiatry and drug development. 2. Psychedelics are currently at near the "Peak of Inflated Expectations" in the Gartner hype cycle. I've seen a lot of these glowing articles about Ayahuasca, LSD, and Mushrooms lately. The claims within are, frankly, out of control and verging…

One of the things that psychedelics teach you, is that what your mind perceives to be reality, is your reality at that point in time. In other words, as conscious beings experiencing the world through qualia, the phrase "it's all in your mind" is deeply true. The world as experienced during a trip does not match the cold, concrete day-to-day external world, but these psychedelic experiences do not interact with that world, they interact with the soft, malleable, subjective internal world.

If these people have built up an expectation that psychedelic use will trigger a revelatory change in perspective, and it does - whether by placebo or neurochemical means - then isn't it fair to say that they are working as intended?

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