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Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

economist.com

291–300 of 441 posts

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#291
post #180
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's human feces everywhere outside the tourist/financial districts, This is not accurate. The Sunset, Richmond, Parkside, Presidio, Marina, and many other parts of the city are very clean (or at least not notably dirty for a city). Perhaps the Marina/Presidio could be called tourist areas but the Sunset and Richmond certainly are not.

I've lived here for over 5 years and can absolutely confirm there are a few parts of the city that are dirty and have the feces/needles that people who honestly can't afford to live here love to talk about when they're denigrating the city. As you've noted, there are lots of neighborhoods, MOST of the city, that are very clean, safe, and obviously very desirable to live in.

Hmmm. I lived in the heart of the Castro for 15 years. When I arrived it was lovely. When I left (3 years ago, pre-covid), it was... not. Homeless and vacant storefronts everywhere.

The merchant who has been running the shop below my place longer than I have been alive (and I'm OLD by HN standards) put it this way: The Castro is dying.

Maybe there are neighborhoods changing for the better somewhere to balance it out, but I kinda doubt it. The change is real.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#292

I sat and chatted to a homeless fella hanging out at Fisherman’s Wharf in SF for a while. He wasn’t from CA, from Missouri IIRC. He was gay, his family disowned him, he got into drugs. He got bitter, did some nasty stuff to people he hated, did some other misguided things and basically had hit rock bottom. I asked him what he thought would be needed to bring him out of homelessness and keep him inside society. He sai…

Write 'em off. If they aren't causing problems then ignore them. If they are causing problems, well, probably beat them and kick them out of town. Its going to be that or jail them and some how jail seems crueler than corporal punishment and banishment. I say this because I don't think its crazy or irrational to not want to be a part of society at large, but that society in general depends on people wanting to participate and do good by each other and does not have graceful mechanisms for dealing with people that want to fuck that up. Thinking more broadly, I suspect you could help people not get to that point with stronger community bonds. If they saw value in society then they'd probably participate right?

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#293
post #232

As someone who's family has been in the bay area for over a century I was disappointed the article didn't mention any of the old money families who've controlled SF politics for decades. This article[0] mentions some, though not all of the families (The Aliotos aren't mentioned here for example). While I haven't fully kept up, I know in the 90s at least a quarter of the financial district was held by two families. Th…

If SF politics is really controlled by a wealthy cabal then why have they allowed the situation to deteriorate so much? What possible benefit could they derive from homelessness, dirty streets, rampant property crime, and a dysfunctional government? The wealthy people who control NYC politics seem less tolerant of such issues.

> If SF politics is really controlled by a wealthy cabal then why have they allowed the situation to deteriorate so much?

Because they can't influence supervisor elections or school board elections as well as they can elections for mayor. The reason why San Francisco mayors are always re-elected is because they're very middle of the road in terms of politics and risk tolerance. Activist policies are usually the product of the Board of Supervisors, the school board, the district attorney, or public initiative, all of which are completely independent of the mayor's office. Sometimes the mayor's office will try to head off policies by offering watered-downed versions as an alternative. This doesn't always work, but it does contribute to the sense that they share some of the more radical policy preferences.

If you don't believe that the mayor's office has been significantly more conservative than the other political centers of San Francisco, just look at the police department. However dysfunctional you think the police department, it's not because the mayor's office has ever appointed a far left, defund-the-police police chief that seemingly every liberal has been demanding for decades. Police chiefs are appointed by the mayor the same way the monied elite choose a mayor--someone who is middle of the road, will keep their head down, and keep things moving along as best they can amidst the fracas. And as you would expect, their performance always falls short because their job isn't to succeed, but to avoid failure.

In general the mayor's office is expected by the old money elite (and increasingly some of the new money elite, like Benioff) to be the caretaker of a city with often times very extreme and contradictory policy demands. They're expected to avoid controversy, blunt the extremists, negotiate (quietly!) among various interests (e.g. unions), and pick up the pieces when things fail.

> The wealthy people who control NYC politics seem less tolerant of such issues.

Maybe. But I tend to think that a more important factor is that NYC still has a larger working class. The upper middle class, which increasingly dominates San Francisco politically, is disconnected from the city. Their politics come from social media and national narratives. They're more focused on avoiding feeling guilty about drug addicts and the homeless than on actual results. That's why the policies keep getting pushed further and further left (far beyond what was ever demanded 10 years earlier) despite the lack of results.

The thing about the rich elite, especially old money, is that in many ways they're far more grounded than the middle classes, especially modern middle classes. If you own buildings or businesses, local politics matters immensely to you. No matter how conservative or liberal you are, what matters above all else is consistency and avoiding surprises. Consistency and security is critical because you're immobile. The same is true for the working classes. No matter how pissed you are at economic inequality, the last thing you need is the ground constantly shifting underneath your feet. Similar to old money, consistency and security is critical because you're immobile.

San Francisco has too few of the latter kinds of people. At the end of an election cycle, its votes that matter, not dollars. The result is that moderates, which are still quite powerful, are always playing defense rather than offense.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For better or for worse, homelessness in America can largely be attributed to Regan-era changes in policy [1] that prevented people from being committed against their will to psychiatric hospitals. It was done in the name of human rights, but naturally there were ulterior motives. It's time we reverted it. About 10% of humans have been addicts across most cultures throughout most of recorded human history, and they d…

But they are making rational decisions, in their own framework. And they are caring for themselves, as much as they care. Sure we could grab them up and throw them into institutions, and call the problem solved. I’d rather see us hold them accountable for any behavior that harms others, and leave it at that. Sleep on the sidewalk? Fine. Block the sidewalk? Not fine. Litter, endanger, defacate in public? Same penalty…

[deleted]

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do they do that and get their homeless number to zero?

As long as the homeless people have been offered help and are not harming others why do you feel the need to do anything to them? Why does a class of person need to be reduced to ‘zero’? What if someone decided people like you had to be reduced to zero?

Lets talk about harm. Street people don't have places to dispose of needles, they don't have access to sanitation or toilettes, frequently are struggling with mental health issues in loud and sometimes frightening fashions, oh and I guess if you're a woman in that position you're in incredible danger. With that in mind, is it more clear why other people wouldn't want any one to live like that?

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#296

I will note that California seems to be America's dumping ground for the nation's homeless problem. There are also long-standing federal and state housing policies impacting San Francisco. I have no idea how dysfunctional the local city government is in this case, but there are things going on here beyond its control. It's not fair or reasonable to act like the condition the city is in is entirely due to local govern…

San francisco is a net exporter of homeless people according to a report about the subject on the guardian.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#297

I think some of the responses here are too gloomy. Look things are bad but SF does have a lot going for it and it's a lot less bad than some people think, just don't live in SOMA or the tenderloin and you'll be a lot better off. SF has lots of wealth and resources just waiting to be tapped into, a climate that's likely to get nicer over the next several decades (maybe ignoring smoke), some of the highest densities bo…

I get trying to ignore the TL, but the entire downtown is like this. Pretending a city doesn't have a downtown is a pretty big minus!

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#298

I will note that California seems to be America's dumping ground for the nation's homeless problem. There are also long-standing federal and state housing policies impacting San Francisco. I have no idea how dysfunctional the local city government is in this case, but there are things going on here beyond its control. It's not fair or reasonable to act like the condition the city is in is entirely due to local govern…

San francisco is a net exporter of homeless people according to a report about the subject on the guardian.

California is a net exporter of poor people. Yet it still manages to have more than 25 percent of the nation's homeless population while only holding 12 percent of the nation's overall population.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#299
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For better or for worse, homelessness in America can largely be attributed to Regan-era changes in policy [1] that prevented people from being committed against their will to psychiatric hospitals. It was done in the name of human rights, but naturally there were ulterior motives. It's time we reverted it. About 10% of humans have been addicts across most cultures throughout most of recorded human history, and they d…

> It was done in the name of human rights, but naturally there were ulterior motives. what was the ulterior motive?

Saving a great deal of money for the state of California in the short term.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#300
post #232

As someone who's family has been in the bay area for over a century I was disappointed the article didn't mention any of the old money families who've controlled SF politics for decades. This article[0] mentions some, though not all of the families (The Aliotos aren't mentioned here for example). While I haven't fully kept up, I know in the 90s at least a quarter of the financial district was held by two families. Th…

If SF politics is really controlled by a wealthy cabal then why have they allowed the situation to deteriorate so much? What possible benefit could they derive from homelessness, dirty streets, rampant property crime, and a dysfunctional government? The wealthy people who control NYC politics seem less tolerant of such issues.

As far as I'm concerned, the super wealthy do everything in their power to pit different factions against each other. Feminists against manosphere, Dems vs Republicans, anti-war against pro-war, rural against urban.

I bet the weathly, with billions at their disposal, are masters at astroturfing. This means that they create public interest groups to push an agenda, but they keep their own participation hidden.

This way, there are so many arguments and hate between the groups, that everyone forgets about the most significant problem in the USA - the top 5% of the country own over 80% of the wealth. So it is divide and conquer. This is a very old strategy indeed.

So it behooves the wealthy in San Francisco to cause maximum confusion, so the city's politicians and residents don't focus on the wealthy.

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