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I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

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Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#151
post #12

"Dumping ground" implies other places did this to CA, which isn't substantiated by the article. As it says, the vast majority of CA homeless are from within the state. In the cities of CA, as in other rich cities, homelessness and high housing prices come from the same problem: prohibitive regulations on housing construction.

I took a greyhound across the south west in the early 90s. The bus would stop at each prison along the way from Texas on, everyone that got on was going to LA where they could live rough.

Whenever they do these investigations of how many of the chronic homeless are local or imported problems, they ask questions like “where did you become homeless?” (Crashing on a friends couch doesn’t count) and always avoid the question “when did you move here?” (So someone moving in a year ago to make it big and became homeless 3 months in would count as a local also).

They did a study in Seattle that found that most of the homeless there were previously housed in Seattle, but also that most were housed in … pioneer square. That would be like someone in LA saying they were last housed in skid row.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#152
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really not convinced that high housing costs accurately depict the source of the homelessness problem in CA. If it does, it certainly isn't describing the homeless people I see. Most of the homeless people I see, the ones who are literally pitching tents on the side walks, sleeping on boxes, defecating anywhere and everywhere, passed out on park benches at 3 in the afternoon, are almost certainly not going to be…

The piece mentions Single-Room Occupancies (SROs), which used to be where a lot of people in similar situations would live. I agree that this doesn't solve the problem for everyone, and there's also a place for publicly funded mental health hospitals. But I also don't think everyone who is currently homeless in CA is in as bad shape as the ones you most notice.

> But I also don't think everyone who is currently homeless in CA is in as bad shape as the ones you most notice.

The low hanging fruit is usually picked first. So let’s focus on picking the low hanging fruit if we aren’t already (they might already do a good job here), while the chronic homeless problems will be tough to solve.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have described why the housing "crisis" will never be solved in CA. The homeowners will vote down every new apartment complex, every new developer plan, every rezone. It will never end, ever. Current home owners will never vote for less money, ever. The only way CA can fix this is by a state wide vote - demanding housing to be allowed. Home owners in CA love new Panera Breads and new Chipotles - tie any new comme…

I lazily Googled and disproved you in five seconds: > San Francisco and the East Bay should see 7,872 new apartments open in 2021, an increase of 36% from the previous year. It's the highest number of apartments — 13,497 units — added to the region in the last five years. Surprised?

Lol that's nothing. Try 100,000. California is more than 1,000,000 units short of what is being demanded.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things are changing, as the entrenched interests die from old age. Last year, Prop 15 nearly eliminated the Prop 13 for commercial properties. That this was even within 10% points of passing is such a huge change as to be unthinkable. 15 years ago I would rant about Prop 13 and get nothing but hate from others for my position. These days I'm as likely to find somebody ranting about the evils of Prop 13 as I am to ini…

> the only people I see really arguing for Prop 13 are in the dying our demographics of newspaper comment sections and NextDoor, and nearly no one I meet in person. I like Prop 13. I'd be more than happy to meet you in person. California has the highest sales tax and income tax in the nation. The amount of revenue it gets from property tax is near the median for the U.S. I think they get enough money and don't need m…

Repealing prop 13 doesn't have to mean taxes go up. Housing can be kept in check by adequate property taxes while lowering income taxes at the same time.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lazily Googled and disproved you in five seconds: > San Francisco and the East Bay should see 7,872 new apartments open in 2021, an increase of 36% from the previous year. It's the highest number of apartments — 13,497 units — added to the region in the last five years. Surprised?

Lol that's nothing. Try 100,000. California is more than 1,000,000 units short of what is being demanded.

^ This! The California population is 39 million. The bay area population is 7.7 million. With the 7,000 new apartments coming online we should see a sharp housing price decrease. Problem solved. lol.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#156
post #9

Lived in Chicago and Minneapolis. Hard winters naturally reduce the homeless. They either migrate, get jobs or die

This is unnecessarily darwinian in its conception. It also ignores that the major NE cities invest more into building shelters because they decided people freezing to death on the sidewalk was unacceptable.

Have you ever been to a homeless shelter? There's a reason homeless live on the street even in areas that have shelter availability.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#157
post #26

> Rather than asking "Who can we blame?" maybe we could start asking "How do we fix it?" Nobody talks about the hard truth: The homeownership rate in California is ~55% and therefore over half of Californians are heavily incentivized to keep the housing crisis going. For existing homeowners this isn't a crisis, it's a free paper money bonanza. Just by living in their houses home "owners" (most are heavily leveraged)…

What is your suggestion? That only 5% become homeowners/property owners and we're basically back to feudalism?

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting that property taxes in California are only re-assessed on ownership change or new construction. There's no downside to having the value of your home balloon as much as possible.

Sure there is. Your property tax still goes up 2% a year if home prices rise. That's more than inflation has been. Rising prices also traps people -- they can't afford to move anywhere unless they go far away. As a CA homeowner (nortgage paid up!) I'd be much happier if house prices were half off what they are.

Yes, if you actually want to stay in California, rising house prices only actually benefit you if you never want to buy a larger house - but the weird tax laws also disincentivize downsizing. If the smaller house costs more than your current house did when you bought it, you’ll see a significant property tax rise.

I believe that, to counter this, There are some counties where if you move to a smaller house, you get to keep a tax rate akin to what it would’ve cost you at the time you purchased your old house!

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#159
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really not convinced that high housing costs accurately depict the source of the homelessness problem in CA. If it does, it certainly isn't describing the homeless people I see. Most of the homeless people I see, the ones who are literally pitching tents on the side walks, sleeping on boxes, defecating anywhere and everywhere, passed out on park benches at 3 in the afternoon, are almost certainly not going to be…

The piece mentions Single-Room Occupancies (SROs), which used to be where a lot of people in similar situations would live. I agree that this doesn't solve the problem for everyone, and there's also a place for publicly funded mental health hospitals. But I also don't think everyone who is currently homeless in CA is in as bad shape as the ones you most notice.

> But I also don't think everyone who is currently homeless in CA is in as bad shape as the ones you most notice.

I beg to differ. I've spent significant time around what could be broadly categorized as "the homeless" in California, specifically in LA and OC, over the last 13 years. As recently as 3 days ago, I was searching for a mentally ill and homeless family member in LA. Last I heard he was on the coast, but I wasn't able to find anyone who knew or had seen him. This is an annual or bi-annual occurrence for me. Sure I'm not out there every day, but I feel as though I am competent on the subject. I certainly have more time in rank than most people that speak up on this one.

If you offered an SRO to most of the people that I've come across in the last 10 years, they'd tell you to go fuck yourself.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#160
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

55% is one of the lowest home ownership rates in the country. If high levels of home ownership drive policies that prohibit new construction and drive up prices, how is it that places like Minnesota, with a home ownership rate in the mid-70s, are so cheap to live in?

Prop 13 takes away the normal downside to rising home prices.

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