Arm China Has Gone Rogue • Hacker News Board

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#531

Post by angelzen » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 2:14 AM UTC

justicezyx wrote: post #388

angelzen wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US government will at some point soon decide that any person born in mainland China is a security risk Chinese people earn 15-20% of graduate STEM degrees in US, double the percentage of 10 years ago, and not counting second generation Chinese. At this rate, 'US' STEM will be Chinese dominated long before anyone wakes up to the security risk. https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF11347 https://cset.georg…

What security risk? This Mr. Wu did something bad inside China, without any evidence that he was colluding with the national and local government of China. How is that translate to security risk at US domestic? And all these Chinese stem students already contributed critical work to the boom of high tech industry. You are not appreciting their hard work, and link a speculation to national security risk?! How heartles…

There is zero chance that the OP claim 'US government will decide that any person born in China is a security risk' will ever happen. There is an ongoing STEM arms race between US and China, with China possibly already ahead. US has its hands tied, as it can't restrict 15-20% (and growing) of its STEM workforce pipeline and risk falling further behind.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#532

Post by sennight » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 2:15 AM UTC

ggm wrote: post #316

Not entirely defending things but observing that if you are of a view that IPR is basically absurd, "stealing" it may be equally absurd, but rational. After you've stolen it, it's still "there" except for the exclusivity. Chips will still exist, fab lines will still run. Profits have tanked, sure. Innovation is probably stifled but that's an opportunity loss. There's a long history of stealing IPR at the state level…

Consider it from the perspective of the people who advocated for the hollowing out of industry, the "managed decline" crowd. It sure would be nice to hear an admission of, at best, shortsightedness... If only somebody had warned us about basing an economy on "knowledge work" (no joke, they call it that) in a world where "intellectual property" is just mouth noise.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#533

Post by deroanth » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 2:16 AM UTC

smhost wrote: post #483

anm89 wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I checked the US wasn't harvesting organs, running concentration camps, blatantly committing genocide and ethnic cleansing. Yes, CCP bad.

In fact, the US is doing all of those things.

Very curious where the US is commiting genocide or ethnic cleansing. Honestly want to know.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#534

Post by mr_toad » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 2:16 AM UTC

cma wrote: post #519

barrkel wrote: post #5

This is the standard Chinese operating model, as I understand it. Accept foreign subsidiary investment on condition of 51% Chinese ownership, transfer the technology, then turn around and compete with the parent. It was a similar story with maglev trains.

Standard US operating too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Slater " In the UK, he was called "Slater the Traitor"[2] and "Sam the Slate" because he brought British textile technology to the United States, modifying it for American use. He stole the textile factory machinery designs as an apprentice to a pioneer in the British industry before migrating to the United States at the age of 21. He designed the first…

It worked for Hollywood too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_Picture_Patents_Company...

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#535

Post by yourapostasy » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 2:16 AM UTC

nucleardog wrote: post #292

jbhouse wrote: post #146

It's almost like China wants to make sure nobody ever lets them near useful IP again. This just seems counterproductive for them in the long run, though if you understand geopolitics better than I do, please help my understand how this is a good long-term strategy for China

As long as there's a chance to eek out some more money, companies will continue to do it. This isn't remotely a new thing. There's a pretty reasonable chance part of the downfall of Nortel was a lot of their data being extracted by the government and provided to Huawei. After Nortel shut down, the Canadian Department of National Defense picked up their headquarters to move into, but the move was delayed for years bec…

> As long as there's a chance to eek out some more money...But here we are still willing to gamble that they'll respect our IP because maybe we can make a few bucks.

What I observe is the motivation isn't to "make a few bucks", it is "give the perception that a few bucks will be made". It looks like the agency problem: move to China, convincingly explain to the board and shareholders that such a move was bold, strategically sound, daring, fiscally prudent, and courageous. Gather stacks. Show a few years of expense sheet fluffing, meanwhile cutting everything else that isn't measured. Exit stage left. By the time the chickens come home to roost, IBGYBG.

What I find curious is I don't really see Japanese corporations doing this, even though they also do a tremendous amount of business in China. I hazard a guess at an overall business leadership culture difference between Japan and America; America's is more value extractive-oriented ("unlocking" value), while Japan's is more value constructive-oriented (looking for compounding small, incremental improvements to deliver value).

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#536

Post by perfopt » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 2:16 AM UTC

klelatti wrote: post #124

dylan522p wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Author here, there is a Singaporean investor as well, but they have deep Chinese ties. I agree with your assessment. Allen Wu is an American citizen too, but loyal to China with deep CCP contacts.

Thanks for an interesting piece. Presumably Wu wouldn't have done this if he didn't have (or think he has) CCP approval? Also Son with his long term business interests in China probably thought he would be OK. Someone has miscalculated badly?

Arm China was conceived and even happened before Arm was bought by Softbank

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#537

Post by justicezyx » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 2:17 AM UTC

rootsudo wrote: post #68

"Allen Wu has aggressively taken over the firm and is operating it how he sees fit. One interesting tidbit is that Allen Wu sued Arm China in order to declare his dismissal illegal. He essentially sued himself as he represented both sides in that specific court case. " Well, Smart.

He sued the board and investors, not himself...

Don't be silly, common sense applies in China...

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#538

Post by ggm » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 2:18 AM UTC

spats1990 wrote: post #529

ggm wrote: post #316

Not entirely defending things but observing that if you are of a view that IPR is basically absurd, "stealing" it may be equally absurd, but rational. After you've stolen it, it's still "there" except for the exclusivity. Chips will still exist, fab lines will still run. Profits have tanked, sure. Innovation is probably stifled but that's an opportunity loss. There's a long history of stealing IPR at the state level…

Thank you. I'm surprised by the tone of some of the comments here. The linked article's framing of the story is outright flamebait.

There's a very strong anticommunist view in this tech community, combined with libertarianism and neoliberal economic views. If you add nationalism to the mix, it's fuel on the fire.

I don't want to live in an authoritarian society but foaming at the mouth about the CCP is really silly.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#539

Post by colordrops » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 2:20 AM UTC

deroanth wrote: post #533

smhost wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact, the US is doing all of those things.

Very curious where the US is commiting genocide or ethnic cleansing. Honestly want to know.

Iraq and Afghanistan until recently. And we send billions to Israel which is a straight up apartheid state. That's not even getting into the millions of minorities in the world's largest prison population. We also killed a significant portion of the vietnamese population, in the millions. Also, you should look into the decades of CIA interventions in dozens of latin American countries.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#540

Post by roenxi » Sat, Aug 28, 2021, 2:26 AM UTC

cma wrote: post #519

barrkel wrote: post #5

This is the standard Chinese operating model, as I understand it. Accept foreign subsidiary investment on condition of 51% Chinese ownership, transfer the technology, then turn around and compete with the parent. It was a similar story with maglev trains.

Standard US operating too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Slater " In the UK, he was called "Slater the Traitor"[2] and "Sam the Slate" because he brought British textile technology to the United States, modifying it for American use. He stole the textile factory machinery designs as an apprentice to a pioneer in the British industry before migrating to the United States at the age of 21. He designed the first…

There is a sort of lived-truth here, that innovative upstarts are generally going to be in opposition to IP laws rather than in favour of it. Laws generally favours established players with money, lawyers and political contacts.