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Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

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Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#181
post #159
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sunset, Parkside, and Marina are all wealthy areas in the north/west of the city. Richmond is not in SF city. Presidio is right next to the pier and thus I would consider it a "touristy area". You're living under a (perhaps bejeweled) rock if you've lived in SF and never seen human shit, someone peeing between some cars, dead animals, homeless literally everywhere, disheveled buildings, trash piles lining the gutters…

Someone who doesn't know that the Richmond is a district of San Francisco doesn't get to pompously lecture me on not knowing about the city I lived in for seven years. Also, the Sunset is not a particularly wealthy district and it's not in the northwest. I never claimed that these problems don't exist, but the idea that they're part of life in every part of the city is simply false.

Why are y'all talking about Sunset and Parkside as if they're different things? Parkside is in the Sunset district, is it not?

Also many of the highest ranking schools are in the Sunset, and house prices there are very much on the high side (compared to, say, around Portola)

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#182
post #157
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's human feces everywhere outside the tourist/financial districts, This is not accurate. The Sunset, Richmond, Parkside, Presidio, Marina, and many other parts of the city are very clean (or at least not notably dirty for a city). Perhaps the Marina/Presidio could be called tourist areas but the Sunset and Richmond certainly are not.

Sunset, Parkside, and Marina are all wealthy areas in the north/west of the city. Richmond is not in SF city. Presidio is right next to the pier and thus I would consider it a "touristy area". You're living under a (perhaps bejeweled) rock if you've lived in SF and never seen human shit, someone peeing between some cars, dead animals, homeless literally everywhere, disheveled buildings, trash piles lining the gutters…

You don't even live here. Your twitter bio says you live in Germany... "Homeless literally everywhere" - no, not literally at all. "Trash piles lining the gutters" - you don't even know what you're talking about.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#183

>One City Hall insider suggests that San Francisco overreacts to issues that are in the national news, and designs solutions to the country’s problems rather than its own. For example, when Mr Boudin ran on his platform of less punitive justice, San Francisco already had one of the lowest incarceration rates in the country. In 2019, 106 adults were in prison for every 100,000 people, one-fifth the rate in California…

How do they measure that rate? Most people sentenced to prison aren’t going to serve it in SF.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#184
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a certain kind of voice that's common on here who moved into SF. Got an apartment in one of the new apartments downtown and then experienced a concentrated blast of poverty which isn't representative of the majority of SF. It doesn't help that most new construction in SF has been in these parts of the city either. My point isn't that SF doesn't have huge problems, but that if you live in these parts o…

Eh, I agree that the problem is most visible to newcomers precisely due to the housing layout around Tenderloin/SOMA, but frankly even once you go past that, it's fairly obvious that north/west SF is where affluent neighborhoods are (the trailer city near Lake Merced notwithstanding) and the south/east side is poor. Correlating school ratings to geographic location, for example, makes that divide abundantly clear. FW…

Yep, for sure. My point isn't that SF doesn't have problems, but that people form misimpression's of just how bad they are and those views get concentrated in places like hacker news

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there is lots of working being put in by a lot of people to fix parts of it. For example CA is in the process of passing a law to upzone large swaths of single family housing. The YIMBY movement is gaining steam. I think one fo the saddest things in politics at least in the west is this sort of defeatism where large swaths of the electorate think that things are unfixable. I think especially as technologists we…

I agree they are fixable, not even particularly difficult. But there’s no political will.

Well let's work on building the political will then? It is true that individually we're unlikely to have much impact, but there are organizations and groups working for change and they've been having results.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#186
post #91

27 year San Francisco resident here. The government here is dysfunctional because that's what people voted for. The fact that people pay so much to live here says that people are willing to put up with a lot in exchange for living in a diverse and beautiful city.

There's human feces everywhere outside the tourist/financial districts, and the entirety of the inner city (Tenderloin) is disintegrated and full of poverty, homelessness and crime - and it's predominantly people of color who accumulate there. If that's "diverse" and "beautiful" then I'd hate to think what "monocultural" and "dull" looks like...

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#187

I'd like bundle Oakland (across from SF on east bay) with this as well. Totally useless government, unbelievably filthy, utterly third world and embarrassingly woke. Yes, I say this as a liberal who's never voted for Republican candidate ever. Portland, Seattle, LA and SF - this is a west coast phenomenon and a policy-induced suicide. > In 2017 Portland ranked third. Now it has dropped to 66th out of 80. https://www.…

There are some policy issues at play, particularly the ones that essentially allow people who are in difficult circumstances to completely avoid any kind of consequences for anti-social behavior. For example, Chesa Boudin’s refusal to prosecute quality of life crimes because they would negatively impact those who already have very little. That’s great in principle, but in practice it means that society has no effective way to deal with people who can’t or won’t abide by the basic tenants of societal living. Everyone else’s just has to suck it up and deal with it.

Beyond that, though, there’s a whole complex web of other causes that have converged at this moment in time. These include:

- A massive meth epidemic, which in turn fuels an epidemic in theft and visible mental illness. - Ditto for the opioid epidemic. - Inadequate mental healthcare, especially inpatient services. - Laws and case precedent that makes involuntary commitment of the mentally ill next to impossible. - The Martin v. Boise ruling, which disallows police from stopping people from camping in public if there isn’t a viable alternative, such as shelter space. - An extremely vocal activist community that will fight tooth and nail against anything they perceive to be “the man” or “the system” committing anything they perceive to be “injustice” against anyone they consider to be “the downtrodden”. Often these are reasonable things, like sweeping a homeless camp that is openly using intravenous drugs from a public park or the playground of an elementary school. - Police that avoid anything that could draw the ire of the activist community, or draw condemnation from city leadership. In practice this works out to be just about everything you would normally expect the police to do. - A populace with a strong sense of learned helplessness who won’t even bother to call the police because they know the police won’t come anyhow. - A culture that disincentives people from speaking out about social problems, except when blaming systemic causes, for fear of being perceived to be conservative.

Edit:

On top of all that, you also have the systemic stuff, like:

- Severe lack of affordable housing with massively inadequate government intervention. - Everything that COVID brought. - Police that run the gamut from exemplary to active white nationalists.

Each of those feeds and is fed by all of the others.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#188

I sat and chatted to a homeless fella hanging out at Fisherman’s Wharf in SF for a while. He wasn’t from CA, from Missouri IIRC. He was gay, his family disowned him, he got into drugs. He got bitter, did some nasty stuff to people he hated, did some other misguided things and basically had hit rock bottom. I asked him what he thought would be needed to bring him out of homelessness and keep him inside society. He sai…

As long as they aren’t harming anyone why can’t you respect their wishes and leave them alone if that’s what they want? What if someone decided you needed help even after you made it clear you didn’t want it?

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#189

27 year San Francisco resident here. The government here is dysfunctional because that's what people voted for. The fact that people pay so much to live here says that people are willing to put up with a lot in exchange for living in a diverse and beautiful city.

I've lived in south china pre-2000, in southern Europe and in south America. The first (and only) time I've seen human excrement on the streets was 2 years ago in San Francisco. It's very... odd. I mean, I don't think we should obsessed with the human feces part of it, but it would be nice to understand what's going on that it is so visible.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#190
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at the property crime rates, it’s certainly not because people behave.

It depends - are they 5x worse than cities with an average incarceration rate?

I think your factor of five is on the “wrong side” of the equation here you’re thinking of. Ie if the crime rate were 5 x that of other cities AND the incarceration rate were 5 x lower, that would mean criminals were 25 x less likely to be prosecuted in SF.
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