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Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

economist.com

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Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#51

Post by emacsen »

lhorie wrote: post #28
LurkingPenguin wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Per my own experience SF is not a bad place to live. I have the opposite view. In SF, your risk of the following occurring is non-negligible and in some cases, shockingly quite likely: - Being mugged/robbed - Having your car broken into - Being harangued or even assaulted by someone who is mentally ill and/or under the influence - Witnessing public urination, defecation, drug use and grab and go retail theft - Step…

I've lived in Toronto, SF and Sao Paulo. In 18 years living in Sao Paulo, I've witnessed one gun-related incident and was victim of robbery once (I lived near Heliopolis, one of the largest slums in the city). In 18 years living in Toronto, I was involved in zero. In my first 2 years in SF, I was harassed twice and witnessed retail theft 2 times. SF is "not bad" in the sense that you won't get shot in the face. It is…

I've visited SF four or five times and the last time, I was waiting downtown (sorry I don't remember exactly where, but a high wealth, high traffic area) and a man who was clearly down on his luck came up to me and yelled at me. This was about five years ago.

I've lived in NYC for ~9 years and that's never happened to me.

It was genuinely shocking and very worrying.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#52

Post by hn8788 »

redm wrote: post #23

"Nor are the police blameless. In the fourth quarter of last year, the “clearance” rate for robbery (which measures the share of reported crimes that result in an arrest) was half that of New York City. The police are notoriously unresponsive." This. Not only do I RARELY see a police officer in SF, but when I do, they look "beat down" or ambivalent. I'm sure years of police being the political "whipping boy" has take…

I was watching a twitch streamer who lives in SF, and he told a story about a time he was walking down the sidewalk at night and saw a homeless person peeing on someone's car. He said there was a cop nearby that saw him doing it, but he told the streamer that the homeless guy looked gross and he didn't feel like dealing with him, so the homeless guy just walked away when he was finished.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#53

Post by wahern »

flyinglizard wrote: post #35
ahmadss wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sounds like Mumbai or Karachi or any other large city in a developing nation. sheesh.

No, it’s actually crazier in a sense. The contrast between the populations, the “virtual fences” created across main streets where you have chaos in one side and first rate everything on the other, seeing all the crazy on the backdrop of Twitter and Uber buildings and ultimately recognizing the futility of a place so rich destroying itself like a misdirected, spoiled trust fund brat. It’s the city that had everything…

> The contrast between the populations, the “virtual fences” created across main streets where you have chaos in one side and first rate everything on the other

San Francisco was this way since forever. The poor have been systematically corralled into the Tenderloin for over 100 years. The divisions between neighborhoods elsewhere were why San Francisco was always considered so "charming"--you could cross the street and enter an entirely different world.

Setting aside the tremendous increase in drug abuse and homelessness, it's the tearing down of those virtual fences, especially around the Tenderloin, that is really causing people to freak out. It's just that their freak outs are coded in the language of social activism. Excepting the Tenderloin, every other part of San Francisco has become systematically homogenized, not to mention seen increased wealth.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#54

Post by LordDragonfang »

>One City Hall insider suggests that San Francisco overreacts to issues that are in the national news, and designs solutions to the country’s problems rather than its own. For example, when Mr Boudin ran on his platform of less punitive justice, San Francisco already had one of the lowest incarceration rates in the country. In 2019, 106 adults were in prison for every 100,000 people, one-fifth the rate in California and the nation. If the rest of the country behaved like San Francisco, the prison population would decline by 80%, says James Austin of the jfa Institute, a think-tank that evaluates criminal-justice policies.

This seems like a very reasonable hypothesis

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#55

Post by runarberg »

rpmcmurdo wrote: post #17

27 year San Francisco resident here. The government here is dysfunctional because that's what people voted for. The fact that people pay so much to live here says that people are willing to put up with a lot in exchange for living in a diverse and beautiful city.

Just because people vote for it, it doesn’t mean it is what people want. There is also the option that the voting system is faulty and that the voters don’t have a real option.

As an example, the city of Reykjavík has 23 representatives in the city council. They are voted proportionally from parties represented distinct views. San Francisco board of supervisors have 11 members, less then half of Reykjavík’s despite having more then 6 times the population. ~And to make it worse, each member is voted on a first past the post system.~ [Edit: Not true as pointed out in a comment]

The San Francisco mayor is voted in a separate election and is not on the board of supervisors. Since this is a position where a lot of political capital is to be gained it is often used as an opportunity for a politician seeking a career, rather then as a passive position willing to let diverse opinions and find consensus among differing views.

None of this is voter’s fault. Rather there is a systemic problem which can only be fixed by the people who are benefiting from the status quo.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#56

Post by kelnos »

Lammy wrote: post #24

> Matt Haney, who represents the troubled Tenderloin neighbourhood I love the characterization of the neighborhood as "troubled" like it was an accident: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrific_Street#Demise

Not sure what connection you're trying to draw; Terrific Street was far north of where the Tenderloin is.

(Thank you for the link, though; I had never heard of Terrific Street, and I'm always curious to learn something new about the city's history.)

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#57

Post by yodsanklai »

pknomad wrote: post #16
ahmadss wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sounds like Mumbai or Karachi or any other large city in a developing nation. sheesh.

yep. I moved to the SF Bay area from NYC 4 years ago and I routinely tell my friends that you need to watch out for human, not animal, feces on the street. It's really sad to see people who are employed that are still homeless and have to deal with mental issues :(

Reading from HN, half of Americans are either in jail or homeless dealing with mental issues. Are there proper statistics to get a better assessment of the situation?

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#58

Post by kelnos »

systemvoltage wrote: post #47
DoreenMichele wrote: post #29

I will note that California seems to be America's dumping ground for the nation's homeless problem. There are also long-standing federal and state housing policies impacting San Francisco. I have no idea how dysfunctional the local city government is in this case, but there are things going on here beyond its control. It's not fair or reasonable to act like the condition the city is in is entirely due to local govern…

I keep hearing this. Do you have any citations for "America's dumping ground". How many homeless are migrating to California? > As the data shows us, most of the homeless people you pass on the streets every day are in fact Californians. > Less than a fifth (18 percent) said they had lived out of state before becoming homeless. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/06/us/homeless-population.ht... Everytime this argument ha…

I would love to see data as well, but I don't consider self-reported origins to be all that convincing. If I were homeless and moved to a city where it's "easier" to be homeless, I would probably claim that I was previously housed there if asked.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#59

Post by civilized »

metalforever wrote: post #48
ithinkso wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are willing to put up with a lot if it means they don't give anything to someone that doesn't deserve it. 'I will walk through a pile of shit before my money is used for you to shit somewhere else you lazy fuck'

You don't actually live in SF or you would know that there's not actually literal piles of shit everywhere.

I went to a conference in SF once and walked up and down Market Street twice a day for a week, and never saw a single pile of shit!

I was attacked by a disturbed man who chased and pulled a (probably fake) gun on me, but no piles of shit whatsoever!

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#60

Post by pc86 »

Lammy wrote: post #24

> Matt Haney, who represents the troubled Tenderloin neighbourhood I love the characterization of the neighborhood as "troubled" like it was an accident: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrific_Street#Demise

You linked to a section about outlawing dancing... over 110 years ago.

Something tells me the troubles in the Tenderloin today are not related.

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