Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine

Also, this says that the covid vaccines specifically passed animal trials: https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-vaccine-anim...

Where do you see anyone proposing a perpetual quarantine? Do you feel we are currently under one?

> has significant positive effects for them

Because covid has something like a 1->2% mortality rate among the unvacinated, for 98%+ of the entire population a covid vaccine doesn't provide any positive effects.

Indeed, most diseases we vaccinate follow a similar pattern.

So why should any vaccination be applied?

At the end of the day it's a numbers game, the more people that are vaccinated and continue to keep their vaccinations up to date, the fewer people will be killed by illness. Vaccinations prevent more suffering than they cause. A little arm soreness is a small price to pay if it saves several lives.

This is especially important for herd immunity. The more people are vaccinated the more protected vulnerable populations are (including the vaccinated population).

> Covid is endemic, there is no path to ZeroCovid. Thus population-level arguments are uncompelling: we are all going to be exposed to one or more covid strains during our lifetime. Given how post-infection immunity is strong (see the OP article), the bulk of the argument comes down to how to manage the first exposure.

Sadly, I agree that we are past ever eliminating COVID. So next steps are what's reasonable.

With that, I think we aren't out of the woods for government and public actions against covid. We are currently in a state of being overwhelmed in our ICUs by covid. That says to me that masking and vaccination pushes should be pushed longer. Until we've exited the stage where our ICUs are overburdened it's hard to think that we should be lifting restrictions. [1]

> Riddle me out: There are vaccines, they work really well, I am vaccinated, you probably are vaccinated. Vaccinate your loved ones. We are safe, to the extent of mRNA vaccines are long-term safe. Why do you have to insist that everyone has to take them, to the extent of proposing abject tyranny to accomplish this goal? What are you afraid of?

I think saying that a vaccination mandate is "abject tyranny" is hyperbole. The vast majority of children have vaccine mandates against a bunch of diseases. Are they under an oppressive thumb? Are their lives ruined or harmed?

It is reasonable to push, and push hard, for people to be vaccinated. It isn't asking people to sell their souls, chop off an arm, or anything else. It's a small prick that you've been through. Anyone can get it, nobody is restricted from getting it.

The "tyranny" they'd experience by refusing to take the vaccine is the same sort of "tyranny" someone would experience if they decided to walk around a public park refusing clothing.

What freedoms are actually lost by a vaccine mandate? Vaccines aren't an inherent quality of anyone. It's not immutable like age or race. Tyranny is specifically persecution over aspects individuals can't control. Tyranny doesn't have a quick escape hatch of being poked in the arm.

The fact is, a switch out of the oppressed group takes 10 seconds.

The fear that this is a "slippery slope" is moot, because we already have vaccine mandates for other diseases. The only slip here is adding one more disease to the list.

You fear tyranny, can you see why I'd see that as irrational? Are you really afraid that the unvaccinated will be sent to the gas chambers? Even if this were a slope, how do you see the next steps of tyranny? "Oh, we mandated a vaccine and that went well, now let's round up the xxxxxx and oppress them!".

[1] https://www.kmvt.com/2021/08/18/covid-19-cases-are-rising-id...

Covid does not have 1-2% mortality rate among the unvaccinated. The difference between 70s is orders of magnitude. From BBC: 'Data from the first 12 months of the pandemic in England shows 25 under-18s died from Covid. [...] 13 living with complex neuro-disabilities [...] 6 had no underlying conditions recorded in the last five years. [...] 25 deaths in a population of some 12 million children in England gives a broad, overall mortality rate of 2 per million children.' For comparison, the death rate from drowning for 5-19s in US is 1/100k, 5x larger (20x if we only count healthy children). For 1-4s the drowning death rate is a calamitous 3/100k, 15x larger (60x if we only count healthy children). And that's just drowning.

We need to get a grip.

Traditional vaccines provide long term, often lifelong protection against nasty diseases. Some of them are sterilizing the virus, leading to eradication of the disease. mRNA vaccines do not prevent infection, do not prevent transmission, need a 6 month booster and are at risk of becoming obsolete and require a different vaccine strain (and then we boost each vaccine strain every 6 months?!)

> Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla told Fox it was likely a vaccine-resistant variant would emerge.

> Bourla said Pfizer could make a shot tailor-made for such a variant within 95 days of its discovery.

> The CDC director said the virus could be "a few mutations" away from evolving to evade vaccines.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57766717

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db149.htm

https://www.insider.com/pfizer-ceo-vaccine-resistant-coronav...

As for the rest, yes other approaches must be employed instead.