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Arm China Has Gone Rogue

semianalysis.substack.com

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Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#251

Post by coryrc »

benreesman wrote: post #214
coryrc wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how many of the people who will be coming to flag you also blame Middle East strife on drawing lines without regard to ethnic territories?

I don’t think I’ve ever flagged anyone, I rarely even downvote. With that said are you trying to make a case that analogies to the conclusion that some German cartographer drawing nice straight lines on a map of Africa in 1860 or whatever was a win for Africa? The Middle East is a mess for a number of reasons, and in fairness some of them (like sitting on the tectonic fault line between Europe and Asia) predate preda…

In almost every mention of Sykes-Picot, not laying lines along "actual sectarian, tribal, or ethnic distinctions" is brought up as a contributing reason to present-day strife. I believe that in the US, people who publicly champion diversity typically also align with political movements which partly blame where the borders are for strife.

An I wrong? Is it a big tent ideology and they don't share the same views? Or do people hold both ideas simultaneously? If so, how do you reconcile them?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-25299553 https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/how-the-curse-of-sy...

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#252

Post by ridiculous_leke »

cletus wrote: post #91

People need to wake up to the fact that China being a potential market of >1B people is an illusion. This is particularly relevant for any tech company. Let me spell it out: Chinese companies are extensions of the state. They are tools of Chinese foreign and trade policy. What cooperation you think US companies provide the US government, it is nothing in comparison. The Chinese government will ensure that no Western…

> The Chinese government will ensure that no Western competitor will "win" in China. Period. I understand why to a point. My main issue is with the West being completely oblivious to it.

> If China wants to impose such restrictions on Western companies, they shouldn't get access to Western markets. And that's it.

And there are people around who give this a pass. And usually the defense is "China is just following Chinese law".

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#253

Post by AnimalMuppet »

ridiculous_leke wrote: post #252
cletus wrote: post #91

People need to wake up to the fact that China being a potential market of >1B people is an illusion. This is particularly relevant for any tech company. Let me spell it out: Chinese companies are extensions of the state. They are tools of Chinese foreign and trade policy. What cooperation you think US companies provide the US government, it is nothing in comparison. The Chinese government will ensure that no Western…

> The Chinese government will ensure that no Western competitor will "win" in China. Period. I understand why to a point. My main issue is with the West being completely oblivious to it. > If China wants to impose such restrictions on Western companies, they shouldn't get access to Western markets. And that's it. And there are people around who give this a pass. And usually the defense is "China is just following Chi…

And if China is in China, they can follow Chinese law. Once they come out of China, to do business with the West, then that excuse doesn't cut it. (Just like the way that Western companies have to follow Chinese law to do business in China.)

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#254

Post by ur-whale »

jlduan wrote: post #116
barrkel wrote: post #5

This is the standard Chinese operating model, as I understand it. Accept foreign subsidiary investment on condition of 51% Chinese ownership, transfer the technology, then turn around and compete with the parent. It was a similar story with maglev trains.

the rogue ceo allen wu is american.

> is american.

on paper.

where is loyalties actually lie is another story.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#255

Post by webmaven »

denverkarma wrote: post #65
jimbob45 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This gets overblown a lot in the same way that we used to discredit Soviet scientific advancements by claiming they stole all the important bits from the Americans. Yes, China does steal US technology and industry and yes, it has happened on a number of occasions with concrete documentation. However, that does not mean that China is not capable of innovation or shrewd business moves and it should not be assumed to be…

The fact that they are more than capable of innovation and shrewd business is the entire reason that casually stealing whatever they want on top of things is problematic.

> The fact that they are more than capable of innovation and shrewd business is the entire reason that casually stealing whatever they want on top of things is problematic.

Hardly casual. The theft is thoughtful, deliberate, careful, and strategic.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#256

Post by kbenson »

cletus wrote: post #91

People need to wake up to the fact that China being a potential market of >1B people is an illusion. This is particularly relevant for any tech company. Let me spell it out: Chinese companies are extensions of the state. They are tools of Chinese foreign and trade policy. What cooperation you think US companies provide the US government, it is nothing in comparison. The Chinese government will ensure that no Western…

> Let me spell it out: Chinese companies are extensions of the state.

Where this comes to a head, and where western capitalistic governments seem ill equipped to handle it sufficiently, is in how China itself can and does act like one giant super conglomerate company and uses that to bully smaller companies because they are bigger than anything around. Western governments are loathe to intervene in business dealing when they don't have to, because their systems are based on a fairly hands off approach with the free market. The one place they sometimes do step in is when there's a monopoly or some other anti-competitive practice. The problem here is that the anti-competitive practice is being enabled by a foreign state that's working under the illusion of separate corporate entities.

What's a country like the US or UK to do? Tell it's local companies that want to and are totally willing to shift IP to China to access the market "No, sorry, you aren't allowed to, even though you own that information and it's not a state secret"? That may be what's needed, but it's a large difference in thought in how they've treated their markets to this point.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#257

Post by SkyMarshal »

908B64B197 wrote: post #159
cletus wrote: post #91

People need to wake up to the fact that China being a potential market of >1B people is an illusion. This is particularly relevant for any tech company. Let me spell it out: Chinese companies are extensions of the state. They are tools of Chinese foreign and trade policy. What cooperation you think US companies provide the US government, it is nothing in comparison. The Chinese government will ensure that no Western…

> Here's where I think this will first come to a head: I believe the US government will at some point soon decide that any person born in mainland China is a security risk as far as working on anything national security related. This will probably extend to key industries of national importance too (eg SpaceX). Even naturalization or birth in America can't erase ties to Chinese entities, through family links for inst…

One of the problems is that Chinese Americans may still have family ties in China, and the CCP's United Front [1] or other orgs will use those ties to extort, blackmail, or otherwise pressure them.

It's absolutely imperative that the US Govt, and the govts of all democracies, recognize and combat this, and take active measures to protect their Chinese citizens.

One thing that needs to happen if it's not the case already, is ensuring the 5th Amendment - no self-incrimination - protects any who want to come forward about such pressure. They need to know there's a legal safe-haven for them to cooperate with the government.

Democratic governments should probably also look into providing an expedited immigration path for their Chinese citizens' relatives still in China.

Right-wingers may complain about this, but they have to understand that: 1) historically, subjects/victims of oppressive govts are more likely to be allies of US and other democracies, rather than enemies, and 2) innocent till proven guilty must apply universally.

[1]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Front_(China)

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#258

Post by toast0 »

yodsanklai wrote: post #193
cletus wrote: post #91

People need to wake up to the fact that China being a potential market of >1B people is an illusion. This is particularly relevant for any tech company. Let me spell it out: Chinese companies are extensions of the state. They are tools of Chinese foreign and trade policy. What cooperation you think US companies provide the US government, it is nothing in comparison. The Chinese government will ensure that no Western…

Naive question here: why China is able to close its market to foreign companies? Same thing for trade sanctions on Iran which impacted European companies but not China (if I'm not wrong). Seems they don't play by the same rules as anybody else.

China can control its market without serious reprisal because there aren't any serious reprisals available that are palettable.

As an individual country, blocking or tarrifing imports from China isn't very effective because it hurts consumers and industry that rely on importing products and raw materials/commodities/industrial inputs from China more than it hurts China who can often export to other countries instead.

Blocking exports to China is tricky because one the one hand, China doesn't import too many things, but on the other hand, for those things they do import, they're a large portion of the global market, so a country that cuts off those exports will leave their exporters will a large surplus, often of perishable goods, that will be difficult to deal with.

So, trade controls are tricky. Most western countries don't have much in the way of laws that could restrict foreign ownership of land or businesses except in exceptional cases. And military intervention would be wholy inappropriate and probably disasterous. Really just not a lot of options.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#259

Post by coryrc »

htyland wrote: post #243
coryrc wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We put ethnic Japanese in concentration camps after stealing away every bit of wealth they accumulated. White women have only been able to vote for 100 years. Some black women half that. American Indians were driven off their land.

This subthread is about the latter 20th century . The 1990s were more relaxed racially than we are now, thanks to the outrage industry.

Okay. Number of babies born out of wedlock was starkly differentiated by race, as were high school and college graduation rates.

Cabrini Green came down in 1995.

600k+ people fled Detroit from 1960 to 2000. Only some of them were welcomed.

Re: Arm China Has Gone Rogue

#260

Post by ur-whale »

angio wrote: post #109
matheusmoreira wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there more examples of this? I want to cite them every time people defend intellectual property.

Fuchsine dye was patented in France, so factories moved to Switzerland to produce it freely. Now pharma is one of Switzerland's main industries.

Same story for watchmaking.
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