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Some Vermonters turn to ayahuasca as a 'last resort' to heal

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Re: Some Vermonters turn to ayahuasca as a 'last resort' to heal

#61

Post by azinman2 »

tra3 wrote: post #5
carabiner wrote: post #3

I've tried every psy except Ayahuasca: DMT, LSD, Bromo-DragonFLY, RC's from the 2c family, ketamine, MDMA, and so on. In each case, I had "profound" realizations during the experience that lasted a day or two, then I reverted back to my normal ways of being depressed in a messy apartment and slacking at my job. In this article, I see descriptors of Ayahuasca similar to those of other psychedelics (years of therapy in…

I have not tried any; but I'just curious -- if you write your epiphanies down do they hold their values or turn into gobbledygook when you sober up?

I tried MDMA many years ago. It gave me a different perspective of the world: one of wonder and extreme beauty. I don't carry it with me in daily life, but it's very easy for me to turn that perspective on at will, and at times when I come across extreme ugliness or extreme beauty, I do turn on that perspective. It's almost a spiritual thing, where you see with amazement that this world even exists as organized chaos despite all the random collisions of atoms in the universe.

Like most things with the mind, it's what you put into it. I wouldn't expect a magic pill to take that just fixes everything. I found this part of the article quite shocking:

> "I walked out of that office feeling hopelessly depressed," he said. "That was a real turning point. I realized for the first time that, if I was going to overcome my depression, it would have to be self-driven."

Uhh, ya it's going to have to be self-driven. If you're expecting to just take a pill and do no actual work yourself, then you're totally unrealistic about taking control of your own mind and life. This goes for any area of life, weight, depression, happiness, etc. That culture/pharma/whomever sells this idea of an easy out to Americans is quite sad.

Re: Some Vermonters turn to ayahuasca as a 'last resort' to heal

#62

Post by the_only_law »

carabiner wrote: post #3

I've tried every psy except Ayahuasca: DMT, LSD, Bromo-DragonFLY, RC's from the 2c family, ketamine, MDMA, and so on. In each case, I had "profound" realizations during the experience that lasted a day or two, then I reverted back to my normal ways of being depressed in a messy apartment and slacking at my job. In this article, I see descriptors of Ayahuasca similar to those of other psychedelics (years of therapy in…

Almost the same experience with most psychedelic drugs here except I wouldn’t say I had any profound realizations, more so that things I knew and understood in my subconscious I was more more open to myself about.

Ofc a few days later and I’m back on my bullshit.

Re: Some Vermonters turn to ayahuasca as a 'last resort' to heal

#63

Post by BizarroLand »

sjwalter wrote: post #19
philpem wrote: post #15

I can't help but wonder what kind of world we exist in, if people are driven to drugs (not specifically ayahuasca, but also prescribed ones) just to live. The spike in mental health diagnoses and drug use ... it feels like there's something seriously wrong with the world and environment in which these people exist. The system is broken, as it were.

Many, if not most, of the pre-modern civilizations of the world were to some degree or another vision-seeking. Ayahuasca is a psychedelic. If people were never at all seeking altered states of consciousness, that would be surprising. Though I do agree. I read some study somewhere about the absurd proposition that the Nordic countries are the happiest on earth--when they also have the highest use of SSRIs in the world…

A lot of human history was influenced by drugs, tobacco, alcohol, marijuana, even wheat fungus (ergot)... the list is very long.

I'm almost willing to bet that that evolutionary crucial awakening of the "human" consciousness, that pivotal moment when our ancestors split from their apelike predecessors, was likely from the clash of normal consciousness and some drug or hallucinogen.

I am not a drug enthusiast or user outside of caffeine really, but I can empathize with people that want to do more, to go farther, to make the next evolutionary step in their own lifetimes, you know?

Why not let them see where they can reach?

Re: Some Vermonters turn to ayahuasca as a 'last resort' to heal

#64

Post by peakaboo »

rfd4sgmk8u wrote: post #56
murph-almighty wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comedy Central runs a Youtube series where comedians talk about their drug trips, and the DMT ones always seem INTENSE. It seems like if you take enough you basically check out of reality for a while, wondering if that's true/what your experience was?

Literally ripped out of reality. Teleported to another time and place. It totally disrupts your senses from reality, and substitutes something else. One time I recall seeing the walls growing with vines like snakes, and being transported to a place with purple light. When you emerge, you feel refreshed and renewed. Do you remember deep dream? When i first saw it, I thought we might have some kind of ML model of the h…

I also had that purple light vision. Curious if it was the same? Mine was our in space, purple and white lights all over the place, some kind of universal womb with souls.

Re: Some Vermonters turn to ayahuasca as a 'last resort' to heal

#65

Post by thehappypm »

fridif wrote: post #36
thehappypm wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vermont's weather is similar to Northern Europe, much of the rest of North America, and Japan. What's your point?

Have you ever lived in Vermont? The cold there is very different from NYC, which is just 4 hours away.

I’ve lived in New Hampshire and spent a ton of time in Vermont and Maine in all four seasons. Yeah it’s cold, especially during cold snaps. Most people actually like it and enjoy the skiing and other outdoor activities it affords. And the summers are marvelously mild!

Re: Some Vermonters turn to ayahuasca as a 'last resort' to heal

#66

Post by jakeinspace »

fridif wrote: post #37
jakeinspace wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose then that those of us living in Canada are beyond saving.

Vancouver and Victoria are fine because of the Pacific ocean current. Toronto has plenty of mental illness as well. That's why many Canadians hop a plane to Mexico. Why is everyone so defensive about this? Moving from a cold climate to a warmer one is a much less radical idea than taking psychadelic drugs.

Sure, but having lived in Houston for several years, I would take Montreal winters over Houston suburbia and humid heat any day.

Re: Some Vermonters turn to ayahuasca as a 'last resort' to heal

#67

Post by carabiner »

the-dude wrote: post #23
azinman2 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what friends have described, it is very different. I’ve seen it transform a number of lives, including one guy who started out with a single visit to Peru to do it and the decided to live there permenantly. I think context matters as well — these people were all doing it as a group to accomplish something with a shaman, and not just for fun at a rave or whatever.

Did he move there to continue the use? How is that different from an addiction?

Most people take these substances at most a few times a year, similar to going on a travel vacation. You need time to reset and you don't feel like doing it again for a while. This is far less often than the most addictive drug many of us use, caffeine. Would this mean going on vacations is an addiction? Maybe.

Re: Some Vermonters turn to ayahuasca as a 'last resort' to heal

#68

Post by kubb »

Man, I remember doing shrooms in Amsterdam, it was such a great time. At some point I had this feeling as if all of my worries were “figured out” and all that was left was a sense of calm optimism about the future. Great experience, would recommend. Maybe this is something that I should do once per year as a ritual: go up there, eat a bag of mushrooms, wander around, feel grateful for existing and at peace with the world.

Re: Some Vermonters turn to ayahuasca as a 'last resort' to heal

#69

Post by jrockway »

philpem wrote: post #15

I can't help but wonder what kind of world we exist in, if people are driven to drugs (not specifically ayahuasca, but also prescribed ones) just to live. The spike in mental health diagnoses and drug use ... it feels like there's something seriously wrong with the world and environment in which these people exist. The system is broken, as it were.

I don't think much about the human condition has changed. Rather, people are becoming more open about mental health issues, and we are developing ways to treat them. In the past, you'd just suffer in silence by yourself, or hope it got better on its own. I remember as a kid I had strep throat a lot. If I were born 200 years earlier, it would be accepted that sometimes you go blind or die from that. Every episode would have been a nail-biter for my parents. But in the age of antibiotics and 5 minute rapid tests, you go to the doctor and they cure it. Are we overreliant on drugs? Nope, we're just dying less from childhood diseases. I look at mental health issues through the same lens -- we're better at recognizing them and treating them now, so what looks like more people with mental health issues is actually the medical system helping more people.

(The same is true of pretty much anything. In the 1700s, there weren't a lot of people with Internet streams driving around looking for tornados. In the 2020s, there are, and as a result there are a lot more tornado reports. Does that mean the frequency of tornadoes is increasing? Nope. It just means the one that touches down in a field in the middle of nowhere is live-streamed from 20 separate angles, instead of going unnoticed by humanity as it would have many years ago.)

Re: Some Vermonters turn to ayahuasca as a 'last resort' to heal

#70

Post by GuB-42 »

carabiner wrote: post #3

I've tried every psy except Ayahuasca: DMT, LSD, Bromo-DragonFLY, RC's from the 2c family, ketamine, MDMA, and so on. In each case, I had "profound" realizations during the experience that lasted a day or two, then I reverted back to my normal ways of being depressed in a messy apartment and slacking at my job. In this article, I see descriptors of Ayahuasca similar to those of other psychedelics (years of therapy in…

Ayahuasca is usually tied to a complex ritual involving fasting and guidance by a shaman. Taking the drug is only part of it.

It is not like with recreative drugs where is is more like "take a dose and see what happens".

I think it is the real difference, there is a lot of conditioning happening, both when sober and under influence. In the same way, dropping mescaline and participating in a Native American ritual involving Peyote can be a totally difference experience even though the chemical is the same, and in psychedelic therapies the therapy is the important part, the drug is just an assistance.

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