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Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine

sciencemag.org

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Re: Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine

#121

Post by siilats »

peteradio wrote: post #89
peterbonney wrote: post #63

The term ”survivor bias” is usually used metaphorically, but in this case it applies literally. Putting in some caveats about the risks associated with infection is not enough. This is a garbage analysis that should never have been accepted for publication.

I don't see survivor bias here at all. This is simply a study that caters to a rather significant population who justifiably want to know what they stand to gain from this vaccine. What this study has done is identified a sub population who stand to gain such minuscule benefit from vaccination that it would be unethical to include them in a study (most studies DO exclude previously infected individuals, huh wonder wh…

Nobody died from vaccine but all the weak ones died from first infection so the surviving infected have survivorship bias.

Re: Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine

#122

Post by john_minsk »

Pxtl wrote: post #98

Good news for survivors, but this is going to make battles about vaccine passports much worse as anti-vax covid survivors demand exemption from the program.

Sorry? Not exemption. Inclusion! Why there is some process that treats some antibodies better compared to others is beyond my understanding.

But In my view it is unscientific and as a result I can’t trust that the rest of the program of passports is designed properly and based on facts.

Re: Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine

#123

Post by refurb »

tacomonstrous wrote: post #7

>the risk of developing symptomatic COVID-19 was 27 times higher among the vaccinated, and the risk of hospitalization eight times higher This sounds convincing, but then in the next graf: >For instance, the higher hospitalization rate in the 32,000-person analysis was based on just eight hospitalizations in a vaccinated group and one in a previously infected group. And the 13-fold increased risk of infection in the…

But that seems intuitive? If you survive the first Covid infection, you’re biased towards less severe symptoms for the 2nd infection (ignoring even any immune response).

Basically all the folks who died from Covid are excluded from this population.

Re: Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine

#124

Post by walterbell »

Are there credible papers which estimate the percentage of Covid survivors in one or more countries, i.e. those with natural immunity? During the first half of 2020, there were several attempts to estimate these numbers in the USA. Are some regions or countries doing statistical population sampling, e.g. blood tests for antibodies?

Re: Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine

#125

Post by abnorxiouster »

tzs wrote: post #106

Long term it seems pretty straightforward. It is almost certain COVID will become endemic, and no known form of immunity whether from vaccination or prior infection confers sufficient permanent immunity against infection to stop re-infection but prior immunity (from vaccine or prior infection) does greatly reduce the chances that your infection will give you serious illness. You assumption therefore should be that ov…

> The question then is whether you want your first infection to be with or without prior immunity. If you want that first time to be with prior immunity get vaccinated as that is the only known way to get immunity before your first infection.

You get vaccinated against an extremely specific variant, that does not guarantee any immunity for other variants unlike immunity from infection. Did you get vaccinated every year for the seasonal flu pre 2020? If not, why do you sustain vaccination when it is clear that you will have to take boosters and variant specific vaccines every year? Why would you suggest anyone that is not in a risk group and is healthy to vaccinate when his body is better prepared to withstand and easily battle any sars-cov-19 variant?

Re: Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine

#127

Post by ymck »

ynfnehf wrote: post #74
CyanLite4 wrote: post #41

The Lancet just published a study yesterday on natural infection still causing symptoms one year later (“long Covid”) for 49% of unvaccinated people. I’ll stick to the vaccine.

49% of infected having symptoms a year later is ridiculous and obviously not true. Unless you define symptoms extremely broadly. I have not read the study you are referring to. Are you sure it is not specifically about hospitalized patients? Even then it sounds extreme. But you are right that vaccines are clearly better when given a choice.

If you have a disease that causes organ damage, it's not that ridiculous. Look at the referenced studies. Multiple studies by different organizations performed 6-12 months out showing persistent fatigue, body aches, headaches, cognitive issues, loss of taste/smell, kidney function. Seems to be a real phenomenon.

Re: Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine

#129

Post by seoaeu »

raffraffraff wrote: post #101
ProjectBarks wrote: post #85

This feels like an irresponsible title on behalf of the author. People don’t get the vaccine strictly on the strength of the vaccine. It’s considering the risk of getting COVID, understanding the long term side effects, and minimizing risk for those around you. It’s also about avoiding mutations of the virus as the higher availability of the virus only provides more opportunities for it to mutate into something more…

Yeah. Should be "If you survive covid 19, you will have greater immunity to covid that you would get from a vaccine"

Pedantically, dying from covid makes it even less likely you'll catch it again... Really this is all just confusing what the actual goal is: to end the pandemic while minimizing death and suffering

Re: Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine

#130

Post by mikem170 »

kiba wrote: post #12
tacomonstrous wrote: post #7

>the risk of developing symptomatic COVID-19 was 27 times higher among the vaccinated, and the risk of hospitalization eight times higher This sounds convincing, but then in the next graf: >For instance, the higher hospitalization rate in the 32,000-person analysis was based on just eight hospitalizations in a vaccinated group and one in a previously infected group. And the 13-fold increased risk of infection in the…

To develop natural immunity, you would need to get infected with the virus, no? That's considerably more risky than getting the vaccine. If you do get infected with the virus after vaccination, wouldn't you also develop natural immunity?

There are also inactivated-virus covid-19 vaccines [0] in trials that one could expect to impart more broad-based immunity than the mrna vaccines which are designed to target only one part of the virus.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinovac#COVID-19_vaccine_devel...

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