Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

directorsblog.nih.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 250 posts

Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

#201

Post by deodorel »

staticassertion wrote: post #97
nradov wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That really depends on which vaccine. There are several inactivated virus vaccines such as Sinovac used in other countries which we would expect to produce antibodies for more than just the spike protein. However it's unclear whether those vaccines are more or less effective in practice.

Are there such vaccines available in the US? It seems like those would make for effective boosters.

Valneva has an inactivated virus vaccine and they will soon apply for authorisation (phase 3 i think right now)

Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

#202

Post by bsaul »

mindfulplay wrote: post #178
__blockcipher__ wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The vaccines also lack a specific abnormal side effect that the infection may carry: risk of death and hospitalization. This is well-intentioned but false. The vaccines can send you to the hospital (side-effects). It's rare but happens. Similarly, you can be vaccinated, get infected with SARS-2, and end up in the hospital, so it's not even true that they avoid hospitalization from SARS-2 itself completely. (They he…

The risk associated with the vaccine (and the magnitude) are orders of magnitude lower than that of natural infection-based immunity. The vaccine can almost certainly send a few people to the hospital in the same manner that an airbag could almost certainly cause injuries during an accident. It's very different from a natural infectionimo.

"the risk associated.... immunity "

I know that it's a very unpopular opinion, but i'd say your statement is unfortunately still not 100% proven for every individual. A healthy 20 yo has "almost" 0 chance of having bad outcome from the covid. He also has "almost" zero chance of doing a hearth infection from RNA vaccines, and we have no idea about the long term consequences of both virus and vaccines, since both are only a few years old.

Making definitive statements in this context is hard.

Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

#203

Post by derkster »

nicoffeine wrote: post #179
ManBlanket wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the impression anything we could learn which doesn't support a foregone hyperbolic conclusion gets vastly ignored by the media and misconstrued as fringe in the court of popular opinion. All of this started with panic-buying toilet paper and baker's yeast from the grocery stores. I'm not surprised despite a considerable majority of US citizens being vaccinated, all reporting is underscored by pandemic levels of…

Millions of people have died in less than two years, 650,000 where I live in the US. More specifically here in Florida, ICU capacity is at 93%, and cases/hospitalizations/deaths are at record highs for the entire duration of the pandemic. People are being turned away for cancer treatments because there is simply no room at the hospital. The peak of daily deaths and infections in our state is right now . This is news…

COVID-19 just recently surpassed the number of war casualties from World War I forward.

625K war casualties[1] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_casualt... [2]: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html

Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

#204

Post by derkster »

bsaul wrote: post #202
mindfulplay wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The risk associated with the vaccine (and the magnitude) are orders of magnitude lower than that of natural infection-based immunity. The vaccine can almost certainly send a few people to the hospital in the same manner that an airbag could almost certainly cause injuries during an accident. It's very different from a natural infectionimo.

"the risk associated.... immunity " I know that it's a very unpopular opinion, but i'd say your statement is unfortunately still not 100% proven for every individual. A healthy 20 yo has "almost" 0 chance of having bad outcome from the covid. He also has "almost" zero chance of doing a hearth infection from RNA vaccines, and we have no idea about the long term consequences of both virus and vaccines, since both are o…

Talking about these issues at the individual level when it should talked about in broader terms distorts the reality of the situation. If you try to convince "no-risk" individuals that they should get the vaccine for their own health, you're not going to get very far.

But explaining to that same 20 year old that he might unintentionally bring COVID home from college and proceed to unintentionally infect high-risk parents or grandparents? That's where the real damage would comes from.

The peace of mind knowing I'm not going to unintentionally kill off members of my family is priceless.

Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

#206

Post by jacquesm »

rossdavidh wrote: post #175
throwawayatwork wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems wildly optimistic. In the UK, 2% of people who tested positive have died. In the US, 1.7% of people who tested positive have died. The mortality rate among hospitalized people even higher. [1] https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

That's about right for those who tested positive, but current CDC estimate is that for each one that tests positive, 3.3 others got it and never got tested. That makes the actual rate something like 0.38%. Which is a lot more than 0, and is even a lot more than a normal flu, but it's not 1.7%.

Sure, but the CDC is mostly talking about the United States and the world is a lot larger than that. People are still dying all over the globe from this in fairly high numbers. And in the developing part of the world we don't even really know the numbers at all, we only do for those places that have a reasonable infrastructure and where healthcare did not completely collapse.

Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

#207

Post by bsaul »

derkster wrote: post #204
bsaul wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the risk associated.... immunity " I know that it's a very unpopular opinion, but i'd say your statement is unfortunately still not 100% proven for every individual. A healthy 20 yo has "almost" 0 chance of having bad outcome from the covid. He also has "almost" zero chance of doing a hearth infection from RNA vaccines, and we have no idea about the long term consequences of both virus and vaccines, since both are o…

Talking about these issues at the individual level when it should talked about in broader terms distorts the reality of the situation. If you try to convince "no-risk" individuals that they should get the vaccine for their own health, you're not going to get very far. But explaining to that same 20 year old that he might unintentionally bring COVID home from college and proceed to unintentionally infect high-risk par…

I'm really glad you bring this argument, because it seems to me as it would be indeed the only "real" reason to have young people vaccinated..

Unfortunately, the recent news on that front don't bring much hope. Vaccinated people can be infected, and transmit the virus to elderly people (the rate at which they do being currently debated among specialist, some claiming it is much less, other claiming it is just as much as non-vaccinated asymptomatic people).

Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

#208

Post by [deleted] »

rossdavidh wrote: post #175
throwawayatwork wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems wildly optimistic. In the UK, 2% of people who tested positive have died. In the US, 1.7% of people who tested positive have died. The mortality rate among hospitalized people even higher. [1] https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

That's about right for those who tested positive, but current CDC estimate is that for each one that tests positive, 3.3 others got it and never got tested. That makes the actual rate something like 0.38%. Which is a lot more than 0, and is even a lot more than a normal flu, but it's not 1.7%.

[deleted]

Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

#209

Post by derkster »

bsaul wrote: post #207
derkster wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talking about these issues at the individual level when it should talked about in broader terms distorts the reality of the situation. If you try to convince "no-risk" individuals that they should get the vaccine for their own health, you're not going to get very far. But explaining to that same 20 year old that he might unintentionally bring COVID home from college and proceed to unintentionally infect high-risk par…

I'm really glad you bring this argument, because it seems to me as it would be indeed the only "real" reason to have young people vaccinated.. Unfortunately, the recent news on that front don't bring much hope. Vaccinated people can be infected, and transmit the virus to elderly people (the rate at which they do being currently debated among specialist, some claiming it is much less, other claiming it is just as much…

I would like to think that getting vaccinated helped reduce viral load enough to help limit potential mutations to some degree, but who knows.

I do know I need to be able to live with myself, and if I accidentally hurt someone I loved due to being careless in the face of a real threat - it would tear me up. I'm sure others feel the same, and I hope people can keep it up through the fatigue. :)

Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

#210

Post by derkster »

bobbytit wrote: post #99

This more recent Thai study shows that natural immunity is far superior for all known variants... https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210719/Thai-study-looks-...

I don't think anyone vaccinated is going to be bothered that they didn't have to risk death by COVID (UK mortality rate of 1.99%) to get superior immunity, even if you factor in J&J/AstraZeneca's clotting risk (UK mortality rate of 0.0019%).
Post reply on HN