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Apple agrees to settle potential class action suit by U.S. developers

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Re: Apple agrees to settle potential class action suit by U.S. developers

#61

Post by cyral »

slumdev wrote: post #56
jrockway wrote: post #48

> Apple will offer more price points for apps. Today there are less than 100, but the company is committing to increase that to more than 500 options. I really hope they implemented this as an enum, so someone has to wade through: enum PricePoint { UNKNOWN = 0; NINTEY_NINE_CENTS = 1; ONE_DOLLAR = 2; TWENTY_DOLLARS = 3; NINETEY_EIGHT_CENTS = 4; DEPRECATED_NINETY_SEVEN_CENTS = 5; TEN_DOLLARS_PER_MONTH = 6; PORTUGAL_NAT…

Complete with spelling errors, semicolons in place of commas, shouting snake case, and unnecessary explicit numbering. Definitely enterprise-grade.

Not complete until it has a poorly documented API with some name like PriceKit, maybe hidden behind an entitlement as well.

Re: Apple agrees to settle potential class action suit by U.S. developers

#62

Post by taurath »

jsnell wrote: post #44
liquidise wrote: post #39

> Developers can communicate directly with customers about alternative payment options. Customers have to consent and be given the right to opt-out. This is a huge step forward (though it falls well short of the ideal case) for iOS development. Having the ability to tell customers about other, often cheaper, payment methods removes a substantial barrier for some apps that have high-priced subscriptions. Positive as t…

What do you think the step forward is here? The developers are still not allowed to communicate about alternate purchase options in the app, they would need to have some other form of communication with the user. Such advertising via side-channels was never forbidden, it's just that it's impractical for most developers to establish that side-channel. I really have to congratulate whoever wrote that press release. The…

Developers are also not allowed to link to account management on a webpage if they signed up via a website, which contributes to lots of user confusion when it comes to cancellation of a subscription for instance.

Re: Apple agrees to settle potential class action suit by U.S. developers

#63

Post by simlevesque »

mynegation wrote: post #54
jrockway wrote: post #48

> Apple will offer more price points for apps. Today there are less than 100, but the company is committing to increase that to more than 500 options. I really hope they implemented this as an enum, so someone has to wade through: enum PricePoint { UNKNOWN = 0; NINTEY_NINE_CENTS = 1; ONE_DOLLAR = 2; TWENTY_DOLLARS = 3; NINETEY_EIGHT_CENTS = 4; DEPRECATED_NINETY_SEVEN_CENTS = 5; TEN_DOLLARS_PER_MONTH = 6; PORTUGAL_NAT…

Lol, few things trigger my OCD more than misspelled words in identifiers. I legit missed important use case while amending legacy system just because someone decided to have “priveleges” in the variable name. I hope all those ways to spell number 90 are part of the joke.

I feel like being proactive about these things is one of the most important parts of my job.

Re: Apple agrees to settle potential class action suit by U.S. developers

#64

Post by JumpCrisscross »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #17
smoldesu wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> did anything even really change? Nope, that's the point of coming out in front like this and donating 100 million dollars towards keeping the status quo in place. To me, it reads as an insult to anyone who thinks their processes are democratic.

Apple is willing to spend $100 million because their executives are in an echo chamber. There are investigations (and some proposed laws) in the US, EU, Australia, UK, South Korea, and others. If Apple were a regular business, it should be obvious at this point that losing the App Store is inevitable by now. A question of when , not if . And yet Apple thinks that maybe, just maybe, they can buy their way out and have…

> it should be obvious at this point that losing the App Store is inevitable by now

This is a radical reading of current facts. It is plausible. But we're very far from inevitability. If you aren't seeing the broad opposition to and limited, focussed support for opening up iOS to competing App Stores, you may be in an echo chamber.

Re: Apple agrees to settle potential class action suit by U.S. developers

#65

Post by mbreese »

okamiueru wrote: post #11
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, what else are they going to do, not release a statement? If you release a statement about a legal ruling you lost, it's obviously going to be spun from whoever published it.

Not releasing a statement sounds like a good option to me. Even better would be simply not "spinning" it. I don't see what's obvious about it. Companies don't have to behave dishonestly.

It was a known court case that had the potential to have a major impact on Apple’s bottom line. Not releasing a statement about the settlement was not an option. Neither party is 100% happy with the agreement, but realistically — both parties got what they wanted (and they wanted what they got).

Re: Apple agrees to settle potential class action suit by U.S. developers

#66

Post by noway421 »

taurath wrote: post #62
jsnell wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think the step forward is here? The developers are still not allowed to communicate about alternate purchase options in the app, they would need to have some other form of communication with the user. Such advertising via side-channels was never forbidden, it's just that it's impractical for most developers to establish that side-channel. I really have to congratulate whoever wrote that press release. The…

Developers are also not allowed to link to account management on a webpage if they signed up via a website, which contributes to lots of user confusion when it comes to cancellation of a subscription for instance.

I think this is exactly what is being changed here? Now you can link away to a web portal with your account and alternative payment options.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Re: Apple agrees to settle potential class action suit by U.S. developers

#67

Post by Strom »

jsnell wrote: post #44
liquidise wrote: post #39

> Developers can communicate directly with customers about alternative payment options. Customers have to consent and be given the right to opt-out. This is a huge step forward (though it falls well short of the ideal case) for iOS development. Having the ability to tell customers about other, often cheaper, payment methods removes a substantial barrier for some apps that have high-priced subscriptions. Positive as t…

What do you think the step forward is here? The developers are still not allowed to communicate about alternate purchase options in the app, they would need to have some other form of communication with the user. Such advertising via side-channels was never forbidden, it's just that it's impractical for most developers to establish that side-channel. I really have to congratulate whoever wrote that press release. The…

This Apple press release and term changes are super confusing. Probably designed to be confusing. Let's look into them.

First, let's take the old terms. App Store guidlines point 3.1.3 from 2020-11-28: [1]

Apps in this section cannot, either within the app or through communications sent to points of contact obtained from account registration within the app (like email or text), encourage users to use a purchasing method other than in-app purchase.

The old rules seem pretty straightforward. You're not allowed to contact users about other payment options if you acquired the contact info through the app.

Now, the press release from 2021-08-26 says: [2]

Apple is also clarifying that developers can use communications, such as email, to share information about payment methods outside of their iOS app. [..] Users must consent to the communication and have the right to opt out.

This seems like it's purposely vague. The press release doesn't talk about the source of the contact information at all.

So let's take a look at the updated terms. App Store guidelines point 3.1.3 from 2021-08-25: [3]

Apps in this section cannot, within the app, encourage users to use a purchasing method other than in-app purchase. Developers cannot use information obtained within the app to target individual users outside of the app to use purchasing methods other than in-app purchase (such as sending an individual user an email about other purchasing methods after that individual signs up for an account within the app). Developers can send communications outside of the app to their user base about purchasing methods other than in-app purchase.

What a bizarre paragraph. First it explicitly makes it clear that it's forbidden to send the payment information using contact information obtained via the app. However the last sentence is a generic statement that seems to contradict that. Does Apple mean that you can only use contact information obtained elsewhere? That would then match the previous terms. So it's probably that. However it is worded in such a horrible way that I can't be sure.

--

After looking more into it, I think some actual changes might still be coming. Here's the key paragraph from the actual court document: [4]

Apple has agreed to revise its App Store Guidelines to permit developers of all app categories to communicate with consenting customers outside their app, including via email and other communication services, about purchasing methods other than in-app purchase. See Berman Decl., Ex. A at § 5.1.3. Under the App’s Store existing Guidelines, developers may not use contact information (emails, phone numbers, etc.) obtained within an app to contact their user base outside the app. As a practical matter, this prevents developers from alerting their customers to alternative payment options. The proposed Settlement lifts this restriction, and it does so for all app categories.

--

[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20201128030647/https://developer...

[2] https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/08/apple-us-developers-a...

[3] https://web.archive.org/web/20210825162013/https://developer...

[4] https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/21049923/apple_propos...

Re: Apple agrees to settle potential class action suit by U.S. developers

#69

Post by kevmo »

Apple was terrified of what might happen in trial.

Edit: downvote away. I'm a former federal law clerk and cofounder of Upsolve. This is how and why settlements happen -- they resolve the uncertainty of trial.

This is how power works in the legal system.

Re: Apple agrees to settle potential class action suit by U.S. developers

#70

Post by noway421 »

mortenjorck wrote: post #9
saurik wrote: post #7

I don't understand... did anything even really change? Like, "more price points"... but that seems like a non-sequitur :/. A big change would be letting developers make it clear to users how to use alternative payment options, but Apple's press release only says via e-mail... which I guess they insist wasn't allowed before?

> A big change would be letting developers make it clear to users how to use alternative payment options, but Apple's press release only says via e-mail It really says something that "allowing" businesses to communicate certain information with their own customers via an independent channel was considered a concession in this settlement. I'm still wrapping my head around it.

Even though not enforceable in practice, you could've been booted off App Store for sending notifications/other means of communication about a cheaper way to pay.
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