I wonder low likely it is that over the course of a lifetime the vaccinated will end up with both forms of immunity. I assume we’ll be exposed to the virus regularly. Would the natural immunity be weaker if it comes from a second, very mild, infection?
Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection
81–90 of 250 posts
Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
It seems like the article is saying that vaccine immunity is actually more robust that natural immunity though.
For spike proteins. Not for the other targets you get with natural immunity.
> For spike proteins. Not for the other targets you get with natural immunity
From the article: "the new evidence shows that protective antibodies generated in response to an mRNA vaccine will target a broader range of SARS-CoV-2 variants carrying 'single letter' changes in a key portion of their spike protein compared to antibodies acquired from an infection." The study discussed in the article unequivocally states that vaccine-induced immunity is more robust than that from infection.
Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection
#83The spike protein targeting antibodies produced by the vaccine do indeed target a wider range of spike mutations than the spike protein antibodies from previous infection. However, vaccines only target spike protein, while a previous infection will cause your body to produce antibodies for a much larger set of targets on the virus, which in practice leads to a more robust immunity. This is supported by data from Isra…
As other commentators have noted, it's quite a leap in logic to use reinfection data to make a mechanistic claim on how natural infection may or may not improve the immune response compared to vaccination.
In addition, the naturally-infected and vaccine populations are not the same. For example, having a bad experience with a natural infection of Covid may cause people to not participate as much in virus-risky behavior. On the other hand, people who seek out vaccinations may have done so for business or personal reasons that make them more prone to expose themselves to the virus. It is also possible that (re)infection for the two groups are not monitored at the same rate. Without controlling for these factors (which your first link does not) you cannot make any judgement about which immunity is stronger from your cited data.
Lastly, your second link and your last link directly contradict each other — the second link claims "Recovered COVID patients don't benefit from vaccine" but your last link says "Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection...." If you're going to cite sources, they should probably have a consistent message :).
Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know - I consider getting vaccinated to be a matter of common courtesy to those you're going to be interacting with now. I don't feel like thanking folks for only kicking - and not murdering - the adorable puppy at this point. Those who have been advised not to get vaccinated due to immune issues or other medical reasons I completely get - but everyone else is basically saying "I think preserving my pride by…
>"I think preserving my pride by sticking to my misinformed opinion is more important than preventing harm to all of you." People who don't get vaccinated generally say it's because they don't trust the government. Probably because the government has proven time again to be untrustworthy. It's not just right wingers like the news is insinuating (another untrustworthy group), but all sides of the political spectrum an…
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Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is true. But given the already high baseline immunity for previously infected people, the messaging for them should be somewhere closer to “you can get the vaccine if you want” rather than “you must get the vaccine otherwise you are causing the pandemic”.
I don't know - I consider getting vaccinated to be a matter of common courtesy to those you're going to be interacting with now. I don't feel like thanking folks for only kicking - and not murdering - the adorable puppy at this point. Those who have been advised not to get vaccinated due to immune issues or other medical reasons I completely get - but everyone else is basically saying "I think preserving my pride by…
The first principle for vaccines to be administered ethically is that the benefit must be outweigh the risk. As trials have not completed and more information on vaccine side-effects is yet to be accumulated, this risk/benefit can be assessed only speculatively.
For instance, this[1] study suggests that the risk of Myocarditis from COVID in young men is six times higher from an infection than from a vaccination. If we assume a gratuitous infection risk of 100%, this may sound like a reasonable benefit. If we however consider that actual COVID infections may be undercounted by a factor of 10[2], the benefit turns negative.
[1] https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.23.21260998v...
[2] https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...
Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection
#86The spike protein targeting antibodies produced by the vaccine do indeed target a wider range of spike mutations than the spike protein antibodies from previous infection. However, vaccines only target spike protein, while a previous infection will cause your body to produce antibodies for a much larger set of targets on the virus, which in practice leads to a more robust immunity. This is supported by data from Isra…
Another consequence of this is that, theoretically, the virus could mutate and be unrecognizable by the antibodies produced by the vaccine.
and given that vaccines target only a segment and pretty much the same segment, such mutation based escape from all of the vaccines at the same time is of very high probability - https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal... . And the fact that the current vaccines don't prevent delta infection seems to confirm it. Whereis natural immunity targets multitude of the segments (and not only of the spike protein) thus naturally providing much more robust immunity.
We need a vaccine for delta. Unfortunately from MBA perspective it is much more profitable to push the current vaccines down the throat of the populace through forced mandates and hysteric propaganda instead of investing additional billions in the vaccine for the mutated virus.
2 shots don't work, thus the 3rd, "booster", then what? the 4th? It is pretty typical for the medical industrial complex to push to sell more and more product in response to low effect, like that opioid dosage increase.
Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection
#87> A third difference is that natural infection only exposes the body to the virus in the respiratory tract (unless the illness is very severe), while the vaccine is delivered to muscle, where the immune system may have an even better chance of seeing it and responding vigorously. But the respiratrory tract is constantly exposed to the external world, wheras the muscles are typically protected by the skin... Therefore…
A marketing person might consider this a way of spinning a known negative into a rhetorical positive.
Unless people are being bitten by Covid-bearing mosquitoes, blood serum antibodies aren't going to be seeing virus earlier than the upper respiratory tract.
Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
My understanding is that it may be due to the difference of time during the two shots. It's possible that 2 weeks between the two shots of Pfizer is too short. We're learning.
Pfizer is 3 weeks, Moderna is 4
Moderna apparently has a 33% higher volume dosage?
Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
it also generates immunity to the adenoviral vector proteins
yes and this has been the big setback for many years this is why we dont have a lot of these vector vaccines. if someone is immune to adenovirus they typically destroy the vaccine before antigen can be presented. this reduces prophylactic opportunities regarding serial innoculation with adenovirus vector, regardless of the cassette load i am one of those people, having worked with adenovirus, as well as coronavirus,…
you got infected with SARS1?
Re: Immunity Generated from Covid-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
My understanding is that it may be due to the difference of time during the two shots. It's possible that 2 weeks between the two shots of Pfizer is too short. We're learning.
In part due to immunity duration concerns and, honestly, in part due to supply issues - Canada ended up going way wide on vaccines - most people ended up with twelve weeks between vaccinations.
Canada also made the bold move of mixing different vaccines, even though there were zero clinical trials of multi-vendor vaccines.