TSMC hikes chip prices up to 20% amid supply shortage • Hacker News Board

Re: TSMC hikes chip prices up to 20% amid supply shortage

#451

Post by randomopining » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 8:42 PM UTC

DanTheManPR wrote: post #199

randomopining wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point it's literally it's own country called Taiwan.

The government of Taiwan has been willing to maintain the status kayfabe, including maintain the "Republic of China" name and holding China's seat at the UN for a couple of decades. It all seems quite ridiculous from the outside, but a lot of people in the region still get quite pissy about the particulars.

CCP just wants power. Expand their sphere and grab the economic flows that would come from that.

So simple.

Re: TSMC hikes chip prices up to 20% amid supply shortage

#452

Post by TheSpiceIsLife » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 8:47 PM UTC

ren_engineer wrote: post #372

monocularvision wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US Manufacturing is still going. In fact, we manufacture more than ever. Folks conflate manufacturing with manufacturing _jobs_. Our manufacturing is more efficient then ever which is why you constantly hear this false refrain that US manufacturing is down or gone.

people always point to this dumb metric, "we're producing more than ever" compared to ourselves, while ignoring that the number in comparison to the rest of the world has dropped massively. Our share of global manufacturing is tiny compared to what it used to be

Of course it is, after WWII the rest of the world’s manufacturing capacity had more or less been bombed to smithereens.

Re: TSMC hikes chip prices up to 20% amid supply shortage

#453

Post by mensetmanusman » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 8:49 PM UTC

HenryKissinger wrote: post #345

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As parent indicated, they are machines that make chips.

How were the chip-making machines made before there were chip-making machines? Can't chip-making machines be made without chips? Yes. The very first one, at least, was made like that.

If all the chip making machines were destroyed and we couldn’t repurpose chips due to DRM, we would have to redo everything again.

Re: TSMC hikes chip prices up to 20% amid supply shortage

#454

Post by Hjfrf » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 8:49 PM UTC

serg_chernata wrote: post #433

Hjfrf wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think ASICs are made of?

But is TSMC producing these ASIC chips?

Yes, but more generally they use the same raw materials.

Re: TSMC hikes chip prices up to 20% amid supply shortage

#455

Post by tdeck » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 8:50 PM UTC

StephenSmith wrote: post #115

I'm in charge of sourcing components for multiple companies right now. I believe they could double (100%) prices and companies would pay it. There's chips that I'm sourcing from obscure places in China just to get the part and paying whatever price they ask. Designers are getting overwhelmed because they're having to redesign boards for components that are available, only to realize by the time they finish the change…

> There's chips that I'm sourcing from obscure places in China just to get the part and paying whatever price they ask.

When sourcing like this, how do you ensure that you're not getting factory seconds or counterfeit parts?

Re: TSMC hikes chip prices up to 20% amid supply shortage

#456

Post by ethbr0 » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 8:52 PM UTC

minikites wrote: post #444

ethbr0 wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because ordinary workers, producing many units, is a business with low margins. And in modern developed economies, those margins are insufficient to support a decent salary.

So what happens when every economy becomes developed? What happens when we can't rely on the existence of low wage workers?

I have a sneaking suspicion that's fundamentally impossible, as some of the prerequisites for developed economies (in the modern, not-industrialization sense) seem to require predatory exploitation of developing economies. And the global inequality of capital ensures there's a power disparity sufficient to enforce it for the former, to the detriment of the latter.

But I guess it's really a question about post-scarcity economics, and whether they're possible?

Re: TSMC hikes chip prices up to 20% amid supply shortage

#457

Post by TheSpiceIsLife » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 8:54 PM UTC

minikites wrote: post #444

ethbr0 wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because ordinary workers, producing many units, is a business with low margins. And in modern developed economies, those margins are insufficient to support a decent salary.

So what happens when every economy becomes developed? What happens when we can't rely on the existence of low wage workers?

This always seems like a question with an agenda.

What happens? Well I suppose the economy collapses and the proletariat rise up and usurp power, or something fantastical.

What’ll more likely happen is we’ll further automate repetitive low skill tasks, and / or start making more durable goods, or otherwise ingenuity our way forward.

Re: TSMC hikes chip prices up to 20% amid supply shortage

#458

Post by TheSpiceIsLife » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 8:57 PM UTC

ethbr0 wrote: post #456

minikites wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what happens when every economy becomes developed? What happens when we can't rely on the existence of low wage workers?

I have a sneaking suspicion that's fundamentally impossible, as some of the prerequisites for developed economies (in the modern, not-industrialization sense) seem to require predatory exploitation of developing economies. And the global inequality of capital ensures there's a power disparity sufficient to enforce it for the former, to the detriment of the latter. But I guess it's really a question about post-scarcit…

I think your mistaking how it tends to be for how it must be.

I’m more optimistic. Not really sure I have much to base my optimism on, but oh well.

Edit: fixed a word

Re: TSMC hikes chip prices up to 20% amid supply shortage

#459

Post by skybrian » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 8:57 PM UTC

pcurve wrote: post #121

StephenSmith wrote: post #115

I'm in charge of sourcing components for multiple companies right now. I believe they could double (100%) prices and companies would pay it. There's chips that I'm sourcing from obscure places in China just to get the part and paying whatever price they ask. Designers are getting overwhelmed because they're having to redesign boards for components that are available, only to realize by the time they finish the change…

Their margin is approaching 40%. They're basically printing money at this point. It's hilarious how a manufacturer can be so profitable nowadays.

On the other hand they are spending billions on building new plants. I guess those are assets, though? I wonder what cash flow looks like.

Re: TSMC hikes chip prices up to 20% amid supply shortage

#460

Post by clipradiowallet » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 8:58 PM UTC

Ekaros wrote: post #375

clipradiowallet wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens to the water the plants use? Is it polluted and unusable, or just tied up temporarily and can be released [safely] back into wherever it was diverted from?

Evaporation, goes to ground water table, stored in plant matter, goes back to river now enriched with fertilizers from fields. If there is fight over water the last one is likely quite small fraction.

Is the returned water safe though? That's what I wasn't sure about, do the fab plants pollute the water to the point it's unusable, or is it able to be re-used(drank).