Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Elm at Rakuten

engineering.rakuten.today

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 180 posts

Re: Elm at Rakuten

#171

Post by 1-more »

MichaelGlass wrote: post #114
5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #6

Wouldn't it be difficult to find other developers that are experienced using Elm? I don't know much about it tbh. Probably, one of my biggest career mistakes was opting for a little known PHP cms instead of WP as I thought it would be easier for the stakeholders to work with the limited options. Since then, I've always avoided going away from the mainstream toolset.

FWIW our experience has been: - finding devs with experience is hard - finding great devs who want to use interesting tooling is easy In the end, we hire interesting, curious devs, and ask them to use tooling (elm) that has a pretty shallow learning curve. I think bootstrapping a project in Elm without any experience on the team could be tough, but once you have some expertise, the seeds you plant in yield abundant f…

Go off king

Re: Elm at Rakuten

#172

Post by nextaccountic »

slgeorge wrote: post #151
hashbig wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And who can contribute to `elm` and `elm-explorations`? The 7 cool dudes. The Elm contributor circle is a clique that you literally have to be a strong contact with one of the contributors to get into it. It goes against everything open source stands for.

> It goes against everything open source stands for Sorry, that's not correct. It goes against your opinion of what open source should stands for, and many projects run in a way where everyone can contribute. But, it's not the only way. The license determines how the code comes, that's the only rule. There's no rules about how a community must run. It's for the code creator (maintainer) to determine how or even IF th…

Open source is a development methodology. The license is the bare minimum.

Re: Elm at Rakuten

#173

Post by nextaccountic »

rtfeldman wrote: post #17
jaeming wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, there was a rift in the community over the leadership's tone in messaging and communication. Some Developers also felt like they could not contribute in a meaningful way or have constructive discussion with maintainers. See posts like these for more details and comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16510267 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22821447 There are also several great alterna…

Honestly I think the main reason for this perception is that people in the Elm community have gotten increasingly tired of correcting inaccuracies people like to post about Elm on Hacker News. I spent a bunch of time doing that in the past, and eventually stopped because I felt like Sisyphus. The same people would crop up on the next thread repeating the same things anyway. Of course if the claims go unchallenged, it…

The way the language is developed drives me nuts. If someone took the effort to fork Elm I would use it in a heartbeat.

Re: Elm at Rakuten

#174

Post by nextaccountic »

dodecaphonic wrote: post #118
agumonkey wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just spent 10 minutes digging google and I cannot find it again. I didn't even try to find about it last year, it seemed the only ui lib for purescript with a tiny docs website (beige / pale themed) Really surprised not being able to find it again.. I'll reply again if I end up finding it

Maybe you mean Concur? https://purescript-concur.github.io/purescript-concur-react/

Or maybe https://flame.asafe.dev/

Re: Elm at Rakuten

#175

Post by lucamug »

tmm84 wrote: post #139

The part of the article that I was waiting for was how they got it adopted in Japan. Having worked in Japan for almost a decade I can easily say it is not an easy feat to change Japanese corporate mindset when it comes to a programming language or environment. I wonder what the elevator sales pitch was. Other than that I think this was a great article.

Even though Rakuten is a Japanese company and all this happened in Japan, the department where it happened is almost entirely not Japanese, so the "elevator sales pitch" has nothing to do with Japan. There were already several developers that were on board with Functional Programming, this is what helped a lot.

As a matter of Japan, there is a very lively Elm community and I know few companies that use Elm in production.

Also, I heard that the Japanese academic world is active in Functional Programming research

Re: Elm at Rakuten

#176

Post by lucamug »

b7bfcdeaab33 wrote: post #140

"the order in which we write the code doesn’t matter" What do you lose in this trade off?

Interesting question. I feel that I don't lose nothing with this feature, but maybe someone else may have a deeper insight

Re: Elm at Rakuten

#179

Post by folex »

mechelephant wrote: post #11
folex wrote: post #5

Elm is awesome, its compiler is awesome, but its ecosystem is kinda stalling, isn't it? I mean, a lot of libraries aren't updated to the last lang version, debugging JS-Elm interactions been a real challenge for years, yadda yadda. Overall I'd say Elm ecosystem doesn't receive enough attention to survive. I'm not complaining, I'm just sad about that and kinda surprised I didn't found a mention of that in the OP artic…

I would argue the opposite! The elm slack is very active with people who frequently contribute to the ecosystem. I don't think the "a lot of libraries aren't updated to the last lang version" is true, the vast majority are. Debugging elm-JS interactions is not really a problem when using the standard interop methods of ports and webcomponents. It's just not something that comes up often. Source: have been writing elm…

Disclaimer: I'm just describing an annoying technical problem, it's not a blocker for the use of Elm. Elm _is_ great :)

I have been using Elm for a kinda-simple project on my work: dashboard for microservices, deployment configs, nodes, etc.

One of the biggest time-drains was debugging JS-Elm port interactions, looking whether there is a mismatch in types.

Cuz the error looks like this:

  Elm eventreceiver failed:  Error: Trying to send an 
  unexpected type of value through port `collectPeerInfo`:
  [object Object]
I know of no way of even looking into that `[object Object]`. Simply logging its fields would already be a relief, lest telling what field/type caused the error.

Re: Elm at Rakuten

#180

Post by earth_walker »

decafbad wrote: post #106
earth_walker wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is correct behaviour, depending on the definition of mod. See, for example: https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/516251/why-is-n-mod...

The promise was no runtime errors .

You are absolutely right and I missed the point!

I believe there are a couple of things in the standard library which should have returned a Maybe (or even better taken a NonZero as an argument). The community Extra libraries tend to offer safe versions of these cases, so it's easy to avoid if you know about it.

Another gotcha that will give a runtime error is the stack overflow if you have too many recursions in a function. You can get around it by using builtins like maps and folds, or refactoring for tail-calls.

Since recursion is often taught to FP beginners as the go-to replacement for loops without explaining TCO, I think many users are surprised by this early on, and with just the compiler they would otherwise have no warning of this without knowing how and when to test for it.

I believe Elm-review is coming out with a method to warn about these cases, so it will be detectable with standard tools.

On the whole, though, these are the few avoidable edge cases, and the promise does hold the rest of the time.

Post reply on HN