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The rise of user-hostile software

den.dev

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Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#221

Post by xanaxagoras »

I recently left iOS over the surveillance stuff and I was looking at a Nokia device to replace my Apple Watch. I read in the Amazon review that you had to create an account and their privacy policy explains that your location data will be synced with Nokia and you can't opt out, the device can't be configured without accepting that.

Nope.

I'm at my wit's end with ALL of this stuff. Most software, apps, digital life, everything related to technology or a computer or a phone - a good majority of it is frivolous. I will no longer exchange my privacy for these idle conveniences.

> Browsing a site through the browser and not the app? Half of the functionality is not available, just to force the user into the app for no good reason. I just want to read a comment.

reddit you absolute POS.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#222

Post by kibblesalad »

xanaxagoras wrote: post #221

I recently left iOS over the surveillance stuff and I was looking at a Nokia device to replace my Apple Watch. I read in the Amazon review that you had to create an account and their privacy policy explains that your location data will be synced with Nokia and you can't opt out, the device can't be configured without accepting that. Nope. I'm at my wit's end with ALL of this stuff. Most software, apps, digital life,…

That seems to be the end result of companies seeking untapped income from harvesting and selling customer data, besides offering everything as a subscription service without any kind of end-user ownership or guaranteed ongoing functionality. Why just make money off the sale of the product when you can continuously gather telemetry, personal information, track their location, their usage patterns, their contacts, their photo albums, metadata and browsing activity?

Most people don't think twice to hit that "Accept" button prompting for permissions, allowing the envelope to be pushed further and further. The increasing ease of processing huge data sets allows all of this information to be aggregated, sold and used for whatever purpose whoever is willing to pay for it sees fit.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#223

Post by frickinLasers »

Ensorceled wrote: post #208
mixmastamyk wrote: post #205

This piece is a great idea, but I was disappointed at the execution. New, but doesn’t mention Apple’s photo scanning. Forced Windows upgrades and telemetry mentioned but buried. Focuses on keyboard lights, which is fine but not exactly near the top of my list of concerns. Doesn’t mention ads in the OS. Finally it blames “developers.” This phrase could include management from certain perspective. Honestly, I’m sure ap…

> New, but doesn’t mention Apple’s photo scanning. Forced Windows upgrades and telemetry buried. Those two things are different issues, the article is about software that makes it difficult to perform the actual task you are using the product for. Apple's photo scanning doesn't make my camera difficult to use. Windows telemetry doesn't make Windows difficult to use. Yes, they are user hostile, just not in the way you…

> Disable telemetry? Not a chance - you better be ready to have seven layers of defense in /etc/hosts, Pi-Hole, and a custom-built DNS + firewall + URL filter + deep packet inspector inside a server rack in the basement. I am exaggerating, of course. You only need six layers of defense to make this all work.

That's in the post (and, incidentally, it appears OP works for Microsoft)

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#224

Post by dend »

wilde wrote: post #210
dend wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP here. Au contraire - I am happy to pay a bit extra for software that does its job and gets out of the way. With hardware, one could argue that can be made a part of the price for the device - if I buy a "premium" component, I prefer to have a clean user experience that does not create a hole in my network to manage RGB lights.

Thanks for responding! I guess I was mainly reacting to your claim about the move to subscriptions. It costs $10/mo to make software these days. $0.33/mo (your stated price) isn’t tenable. I expect the added costs apply similarly for other portions of the supply chain. Apple hardware provides similar quality to what you’re asking for. It is 2-4x more expensive and that’s with the advantage of scale.

I think this can be taken on a case-by-case basis. With software, where I am looking is a place where I can buy a "snapshot" - the current release that time and effort was invested in, that I can compensate for. That's it. I am not asking for constant updates, as I would be perfectly content with the release I bought. That is, until it can't work for my needs, and I need to buy another version.

But I do understand your point and I agree - it's not a cheap effort.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#225

Post by amelius »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #26

Agreed on all points. Interesting to see this: > You can argue that all of this has existed for a very long time, back from the days of all kinds of toolbars and extensions that created multiple levels of address bar nesting in your web browser and taskbar. What I find ironic about the whole situation is, back then it was universally known that those toolbars and extensions are distributed by assholes. The whole soft…

Just watch the movie Idiocracy, and you'll understand where it all comes from.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#226

Post by slingnow »

michaelcampbell wrote: post #99
TeMPOraL wrote: post #26

Agreed on all points. Interesting to see this: > You can argue that all of this has existed for a very long time, back from the days of all kinds of toolbars and extensions that created multiple levels of address bar nesting in your web browser and taskbar. What I find ironic about the whole situation is, back then it was universally known that those toolbars and extensions are distributed by assholes. The whole soft…

> back then it was universally known that those toolbars and extensions are distributed by assholes. Clearly not the case or they wouldn't have been as ubiquitous as they were.

They were ubiquitous because your unwitting grandparents wanted into install some simple application and weren't savvy enough to read and uncheck all of the boxes that installed the new Ask Jeeves toolbar.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#227

Post by mixmastamyk »

Ensorceled wrote: post #208
mixmastamyk wrote: post #205

This piece is a great idea, but I was disappointed at the execution. New, but doesn’t mention Apple’s photo scanning. Forced Windows upgrades and telemetry mentioned but buried. Focuses on keyboard lights, which is fine but not exactly near the top of my list of concerns. Doesn’t mention ads in the OS. Finally it blames “developers.” This phrase could include management from certain perspective. Honestly, I’m sure ap…

> New, but doesn’t mention Apple’s photo scanning. Forced Windows upgrades and telemetry buried. Those two things are different issues, the article is about software that makes it difficult to perform the actual task you are using the product for. Apple's photo scanning doesn't make my camera difficult to use. Windows telemetry doesn't make Windows difficult to use. Yes, they are user hostile, just not in the way you…

Yes, I think it could be better, and these hostile practices do overlap. Author does mention telemetry, although the lede is buried.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#229

Post by mixmastamyk »

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #213
ryandrake wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And again, for specific app and co, most developer would complain and not like release such user-hostile software but they are forced by business to do it For every dark pattern, invasive analytics package, adware, malware, spyware that gets added to a product, there is an actual software developer sitting in a chair, voluntarily adding it. Maybe someone here on HN, reading this very thread! Nobody is putting a gun…

At the end of the day even if all devs collectively decide they won’t implement these features (which already is utopian), there will be someone in a more desparate position who would just be too glad to take the job. You may have to go looking in other countries. Or raise wages. But it will get done.

At least that would slow it down and/or force assholes to pay more.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#230

Post by Paianni »

xanaxagoras wrote: post #221

I recently left iOS over the surveillance stuff and I was looking at a Nokia device to replace my Apple Watch. I read in the Amazon review that you had to create an account and their privacy policy explains that your location data will be synced with Nokia and you can't opt out, the device can't be configured without accepting that. Nope. I'm at my wit's end with ALL of this stuff. Most software, apps, digital life,…

I don't think their S30+ (dumb) phones have that sort of ToS imposed...but then I can't imagine you want to revert to that sort of thing.
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