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The rise of user-hostile software

den.dev

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Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#191

Post by rixed »

api wrote: post #53
TeMPOraL wrote: post #26

Agreed on all points. Interesting to see this: > You can argue that all of this has existed for a very long time, back from the days of all kinds of toolbars and extensions that created multiple levels of address bar nesting in your web browser and taskbar. What I find ironic about the whole situation is, back then it was universally known that those toolbars and extensions are distributed by assholes. The whole soft…

> Something weird happened over the past decade. I blame free (as in beer). If you can’t sell software you have to monetize in other ways. This creates a huge forcing function to push acceptance of surveillance, adware, and worse as hard as possible. It’s hard to complete with free. A free thing can build a network effect fast, then monetize with roundabout methods like surveillance. Payment also adds friction, and I…

> If you can’t sell software you have to monetize in other ways.

If you can't sell software and have to monetize it somehow, sure you can steal user data. But you can also steal user data even if you sell the software, as has been demonstrated many times.

Only authors who have no intend to monetize the software could really be trusted.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#192

Post by [deleted] »

EamonnMR wrote: post #168
zelon88 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which means the rise of Linux desktop or Fediverse platforms, and that's gonna be a while, but not impossible. I like to hope you're right, but I don't believe you are. Most people don't want to learn more about tech. They just want tech to be intuitive enough to pick up and use. The mobile market appeared because Windows is too big and cumbersome. That's why people advertised it as a skill on their resume. It isn'…

The reason you don't list android user on your resume is that it's very difficult to use android (or iOS) for anything beyond passive consumption of content which is not something employers want.

[deleted]

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#193

Post by mishafb »

sneak wrote: post #149
marcodiego wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most mainstream software from renowned companies should be [...] classified as malware. Most FLOSS has not fallen in this category.

But even a significant portion of FLOSS can be legitimately called spyware. Firefox, Chromium, Docker (although Docker Desktop is no longer open source), Homebrew, Mattermost, Netdata, Bitwarden - all of these are common, popular FLOSS that embed spyware, oftentimes operating silently (other than a little notice at install time that the authors think constitutes informed consent). The spyware epidemic is real, and FL…

Wait, what did Bitwarden do?

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#194

Post by Jtsummers »

AshamedCaptain wrote: post #68
dvdkon wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost of traffic for a hardware monitoring/config utility? Not everything needs to be a service, and this is also a perfect example of why some things shouldn't be services, just plain old downloadable software.

Yet people will happily use frigging GOOGLE out of all services _as a calculator_ rather than their happily locally working and probably much more featureful calculator app. People are using, for a simple two digit multiplication, a bazillion tons of hardware distributed thorugh hundreds of countries hundreds of miles away. Even the simplest microcontroller amongst all the hardware participating in this www query wou…

The Windows calculator can take seconds to launch, if you already have a browser open C-t and then entering a quick calculation is much faster. Even on systems like macOS where the calculator opens quickly, again if you already have a browser open creating a new tab and querying is faster for any short calculation.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#195

Post by selfhoster11 »

flyinghamster wrote: post #36

Hear, hear! My disillusionment with tech is at full boil at this point. It's gotten to the point where I trust tech products about as much as I'd trust a wild chimpanzee. Unfortunately, one person boycotting hostile tech is like one person trying to bail out the Titanic with a teaspoon.

I don't boycott, I try to check out whenever I can. I've been running a libre stack on my desktop computer for over a decade.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#196

Post by AnimalMuppet »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #21
nicbou wrote: post #2

With all the praise Brother laser printers get for being just a damn printer, I wonder what the end game is for some of those businesses. I can understand that monetisation and user well-being can be at odds sometimes (e.g. with free apps and services), but surely a generic hardware manufacturer wants to ensure a generic experience? This is why I tend to buy things that use generic, open standards. I don't trust some…

> surely a generic hardware manufacturer wants to ensure a generic experience? What they want, first and foremost, is to not be a generic hardware manufacturer . Quite a lot of those user-hostile choices - custom apps, SaaS-ification, focus on collaboration features - are attempts to prevent the product from being a commodity. For example, I can replace my current washing machine with any other model of any other bra…

Which is better, to be a commodity, or to be a not-commodity but the thing that makes you not a commodity is a thing that nobody actually wants?

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#197

Post by b3morales »

quetzthecoatl wrote: post #169
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Something weird happened over the past decade. PR happened. The big players have figured out that if they want to keep misbehaving to make money, they needed people to not fight them. To do so, one amazing tool is to make sure the entire way to speak about the topic is controlled by them. Internet gave us the ability to share more, and we though it would allow us to defend our self better, to make people more aware.…

Politics too. People are far too eager to cede power to these big tech companies just because it will hurt those on the other side of the political spectrum now - without realizing that that power is gone forever. DMCA takedown, demonetization and ad revenue scene, privacy - it's all the same story.

Was (is) there any normal person who was in favor of the DMCA? Geeks knew about it and hated it; non-geeks were unaware or, if informed, hated it. It was a product of lawyers and moneyed "entertainment" industry interests.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#199

Post by [deleted] »

michaelcampbell wrote: post #99
TeMPOraL wrote: post #26

Agreed on all points. Interesting to see this: > You can argue that all of this has existed for a very long time, back from the days of all kinds of toolbars and extensions that created multiple levels of address bar nesting in your web browser and taskbar. What I find ironic about the whole situation is, back then it was universally known that those toolbars and extensions are distributed by assholes. The whole soft…

> back then it was universally known that those toolbars and extensions are distributed by assholes. Clearly not the case or they wouldn't have been as ubiquitous as they were.

[deleted]

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#200

Post by nottorp »

api wrote: post #53
TeMPOraL wrote: post #26

Agreed on all points. Interesting to see this: > You can argue that all of this has existed for a very long time, back from the days of all kinds of toolbars and extensions that created multiple levels of address bar nesting in your web browser and taskbar. What I find ironic about the whole situation is, back then it was universally known that those toolbars and extensions are distributed by assholes. The whole soft…

> Something weird happened over the past decade. I blame free (as in beer). If you can’t sell software you have to monetize in other ways. This creates a huge forcing function to push acceptance of surveillance, adware, and worse as hard as possible. It’s hard to complete with free. A free thing can build a network effect fast, then monetize with roundabout methods like surveillance. Payment also adds friction, and I…

> If you can’t sell software you have to monetize in other ways.

What do you mean, can't sell software? Lately you can't BUY software. Everything is either free or subscription based. And they sell your data even if you pay for a subscription.

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