ngl, their marketing teams are brilliant. yes, they are destroying the planet, but they certainly succeeded in driving the language/narrative.
Big oil coined ‘carbon footprints’ to blame us for their greed
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Re: Big oil coined ‘carbon footprints’ to blame us for their greed
#52People act like oil companies are the ones burning oil. They’re just responding to demand. We need to make oil less competitive, with better alternatives. No point or even value in demonizing these companies — the whole world is complicit.
They call themselves "energy" companies, so where does it matter where that energy comes from?
In that perfect world where once they knew early on that the consumption of their product would lead to an uninhabitable planet for future generations (because that's what we're facing now), couldn't they have pivoted (slowly) towards true renewables and battery technology? They could have been the leaders instead of the culprits, and positioned for greater long term growth and shareholder value, instead of the relatively short term profits of business as usual.
As long as we're writing science fiction that is... But someone somewhere made a choice to bury the science and keep the status quo, either by action or inaction.
Re: Big oil coined ‘carbon footprints’ to blame us for their greed
#53People act like oil companies are the ones burning oil. They’re just responding to demand. We need to make oil less competitive, with better alternatives. No point or even value in demonizing these companies — the whole world is complicit.
I used to only blame consumers, until I learned how inefficient oil production is and how much CO2 is emitted at the oilfield. Yes, some oil companies are burning huge amounts of oil and methane before the product even reaches the end user. For decades, these companies have chosen against implementing process improvements, and the only way they will do anything is by penalizing them.
https://news.stanford.edu/2018/08/30/measuring-crude-oils-ca...
Re: Big oil coined ‘carbon footprints’ to blame us for their greed
#54Big oil is big because billions of people rely on hydrocarbons for transport, heating their homes, electricity, and many other things. Demonizing "Big Oil" is a way to evade the fact that people are not willing to pay large amounts to stop the world from warming a few degrees.
Big industry of all sorts routinely tries to manipulate public opinion and the machinery of government to keep itself in business. That goes for big corn as much as big oil, but big oil is the one fucking over the planet.
Re: Big oil coined ‘carbon footprints’ to blame us for their greed
#55I worked in the oil & gas industry about a decade ago. I recall a conversation with our CEO directly talking about renewables and the environment. He said, very clearly, that this entire industry is about money, and they will do whatever makes them the most money. If renewable ever paid more than oil, they'd go there. But direct from his mouth - it is 100% about money. If anyone doubts that they are greed-driven, jus…
> If anyone doubts that they are greed-driven, just ask. They don't hide it. They have a legal obligation to pursue profits for shareholders. This is their fiduciary duty. And they are like this because their consumers are like this. If people weren't so "greedy" demanding hydrocarbons at rock bottom prices, and instead wanted to pay a premium for solar powered EVs, well then hell believe me they would pursue those b…
Do they also have a legal obligation to lie and fund disinformation?
Re: Big oil coined ‘carbon footprints’ to blame us for their greed
#56Blaming climate change on the "greed" of oil companies seems to me just a way to avoid taking personal responsibility for one's own choices as a consumer. You really can't drive a massive SUV where a smaller vehicle or even a bike might work perfectly well and then yell at Exxon about their greed.
And you can't ride a bicycle or train where the infrastructure doesn't exist because of pro-car lobbying by the oil companies, and then yell at individuals about their 'personal responsibility'.
Re: Big oil coined ‘carbon footprints’ to blame us for their greed
#57Genuine question to all the anti "Big Oil" commenters here: what's your alternative? Let's imagine an alternate history where oil companies hadn't fought against climate change science. What does that alternate universe look like? We have known for years that climate change is real, and yet the vast majority of people simply won't actually change their consumption when push comes to shove. This is the largest, most s…
Roughly diverges from Carter putting solar panels on the White House and Reagan not taking them off. Other countries follow France in building out nuclear power as a substitute, while investigating how to reduce oil consumption to avoid depending on OPEC. Salter gets more wave power funding. Siemens get started on wind turbines earlier. Basically we end up 10-20 years ahead of current. And the discussion about what to do is easier because there are fewer financially motivated liars involved.
(We can assume that state owned oil companies still captured their respective governments, we're just stipulating that a separation of corp and state can be achieved in the west)
(However, until 1990 the world remains more concerned with the threat of immediate obliteration by nuclear war than the slow problem of climate change.)
Re: Big oil coined ‘carbon footprints’ to blame us for their greed
#58Genuine question to all the anti "Big Oil" commenters here: what's your alternative? Let's imagine an alternate history where oil companies hadn't fought against climate change science. What does that alternate universe look like? We have known for years that climate change is real, and yet the vast majority of people simply won't actually change their consumption when push comes to shove. This is the largest, most s…
> What does that alternate universe look like?
Have all the billions of subsidies flow into renewables, battery and electric car tech, instead of oil? Today it's slowly catching up, but we'd be decades ahead if we started decades ago.
Nobody is saying it all the fault of "evil CEOs", but it fair to point out evil CEOs and in general evil deeds by corporations.
Re: Big oil coined ‘carbon footprints’ to blame us for their greed
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
Easy snark on the headline contribute nothing positive to this site. Explain what fault you find in the Guardian premise and I will listen. For e.g., the sister comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28315019 perhaps share your view?
I upvoted the snark because I think in this case it's warranted. I see this article as part of a broader messaging shift to pin the blame for global warming on the N companies that pollute the most, which I don't think is productive. As an example of how absurd it gets, someone in my local nextdoor group posted something along the lines of “why should I reduce how much I drive when X% of emissions come from N compani…
Those companies are polluting because they are allowed to. Only a society level response can rein them in.
And then the individuals will change what they do, based on what is still available.
Re: Big oil coined ‘carbon footprints’ to blame us for their greed
#60Genuine question to all the anti "Big Oil" commenters here: what's your alternative? Let's imagine an alternate history where oil companies hadn't fought against climate change science. What does that alternate universe look like? We have known for years that climate change is real, and yet the vast majority of people simply won't actually change their consumption when push comes to shove. This is the largest, most s…
I think it is like the car industry. The push to electric vehicles has forced companies to adapt, reskill and do the R&D because they know their business will be going away in 10+ years.
I would like to think that heavy R&D into renewable energies would have been the priority of "Big Oil", not the alternative.