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The rise of user-hostile software

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Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#171

Post by drstewart »

greatgib wrote: post #44

This article is globally so true, but there is a major error: It is not "needs of developers" the problem, but the "needs of product manager, marketing, c-level asshole". Like for telemetry, most of the time the business side "can", so they do. And again, for specific app and co, most developer would complain and not like release such user-hostile software but they are forced by business to do it. Like this stupid pr…

Surely the genius software developers can just do away with the stupid and pointless project managers with their self inflated egos and release the great software ourselves? Why don't we do that? Surely there must be some reason if these useless business people only provide negative value!

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#172

Post by rchaud »

commandlinefan wrote: post #163
rchaud wrote: post #124

Increasingly I am looking at purchasing my software, instead of using freemium or subscription services that lock you in forever. Here's what I've bought since 2019. All of the below were one-time purchases: - Affinity Designer + Publisher (Photoshop + InDesign replacement, $35 each) - Tumult Hype (Adobe Animate replacement, $100) - SimpleMind (mindmapping tool, MacOS, around $40) - Bootstrap Studio (WYSIWIG site bui…

When I was a kid, TV came for free over the air, and the TV stations made their money selling advertisements. Then came cable TV, which you had to pay extra money for, but which included lots of ad-free stations. But after a while, cable caught on and almost everybody was paying for it, and the cable stations realized they could double-dip and not only charge you to get cable TV, but start putting ads into their prev…

It already has. Which is why it's important to highlight the remaining few iconoclasts that stick to the tried and true method of "I provide a product, you buy that product". Not rent the product as you would with Spotify, but be able to buy it permanently.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#173

Post by burnished »

II2II wrote: post #72
nicbou wrote: post #2

With all the praise Brother laser printers get for being just a damn printer, I wonder what the end game is for some of those businesses. I can understand that monetisation and user well-being can be at odds sometimes (e.g. with free apps and services), but surely a generic hardware manufacturer wants to ensure a generic experience? This is why I tend to buy things that use generic, open standards. I don't trust some…

> With all the praise Brother laser printers get for being just a damn printer, I wonder what the end game is for some of those businesses. Why does a company need an end game? That implies there are winners and losers, with the winner taking all. Shouldn't we be striving for a more diverse business environment, where there is credible competition to help keep the actions of businesses in check? Wouldn't this be a he…

Well, two thoughts. 1) long term sustainability matters more to stakeholders than it does to shareholders 2) you need an endgame because its compete or get out-competed, so a company that had better, more consumer focused practices holistically might close after a rough patch, leaving more competitively fit companies behind.

Tragedy of the commons. Its why we need government that isn't business controlled, to care for the common good and help steer against problems where local incentives drive everyone to a stable but sort of terrible state.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#174

Post by Tothegulag »

Applejinx wrote: post #166

One word that keeps coming up in all these objectionable scenarios is 'market'. One word you never see is 'standard'. All this isn't an exception, it's the rule. If you want stuff to not be wrecked by externalities, back away from free market concepts and look towards more centralized control from whatever source. No exceptions. We could probably shift towards a sort of managed capitalism model and be just fine. It's…

This is retarded tankie bullshit. Centralization has been the problem, it isn't the answer.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#175

Post by sjs7007 »

makeitdouble wrote: post #161
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What they want, first and foremost, is to not be a generic hardware manufacturer. Every once in a while I day dream about starting a company[0] called something like "Generic Products" where all we do is make the most basic bog-standard things with no extra garbage or marketing bullshit, striving to have as few different models as possible. Amazon basics and https://xkcd.com/993/ are similar ideas. [0] Never let me…

You are eyeing at Muji, or dare I say IKEA. In the software world, to me Apple was that, until they gave up to become the 21st century Sony.

I've like Muji but find the pricing to be inconsistent. Some items pretty reasonably priced whereas some seemed pretty expensive for no reason.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#176

Post by rout39574 »

only_as_i_fall wrote: post #167
TeMPOraL wrote: post #26

Agreed on all points. Interesting to see this: > You can argue that all of this has existed for a very long time, back from the days of all kinds of toolbars and extensions that created multiple levels of address bar nesting in your web browser and taskbar. What I find ironic about the whole situation is, back then it was universally known that those toolbars and extensions are distributed by assholes. The whole soft…

I think that it's a shift in trust. 10 years ago people worried about sketchy/annoying software and would avoid software that asked them to refill their printer ink 10 times a month. These days everyone lives in a walled garden of some kind so there's less chance of sketchy software being outright malicious. Also I think people are just inured to it. Apps on my android phone that I pay money for still send ads to my…

I don't think there is a sense of "safety" because of walled gardens. I think it is a sense of "learned helplessness". If you keep shocking the rat no matter what they do, eventually they lie down and just hurt.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#177

Post by potta_coffee »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #100
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What they want, first and foremost, is to not be a generic hardware manufacturer. Every once in a while I day dream about starting a company[0] called something like "Generic Products" where all we do is make the most basic bog-standard things with no extra garbage or marketing bullshit, striving to have as few different models as possible. Amazon basics and https://xkcd.com/993/ are similar ideas. [0] Never let me…

We can do a joint venture with my occasional day-dream company, which would sell appliances designed for longevity - e.g. an electric kettle or hairdryer designed to last you a 100 years. Featuring generic packaging[0], lifetime warranty, and extreme repairability - with CAD and circuit diagrams in the box, and spare parts available for as long as they can be manufactured. If any substantial change happens over the y…

I share this dream. I also dream of manufacturing a single model of automobile that lives forever and never changes.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#178

Post by jacquesm »

forgingahead wrote: post #23
jacquesm wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have said they're not, so we should take them at face value. If only it were that simple.

I've enjoyed your comments here, and have learned a bunch from them over the years, so I'm honestly surprised by your comment. Are you saying personal interpretation always supersedes direct clarification by the person or group in question? Seems like a lot of what ails modern discourse is simply imagining malicious injury or oppression when we should work on finding commonalities instead of what differences are ther…

> I've enjoyed your comments here, and have learned a bunch from them over the years, so I'm honestly surprised by your comment.

I see this kind of remark every now and then and I interpret it as 'when we agree I like what you write but when we don't you must be wrong'.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#179

Post by dend »

commandlinefan wrote: post #157

> they focus on the needs of developers instead of needs of the customers I'm not sure what he means by "developers" - the people who actually wrote the code? This didn't come from them. Or the marketing people who create the JIRA tickets that the developers are supposed to "close" 10 of every "sprint"?

OP here. I should've clarified in the article. "Developers" is not meant to single out engineers. It's the collective "people who build, promote, and maintain the software"

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#180

Post by dend »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #32

> At the time of writing, this blog collects anonymized data with Google Analytics. Don’t want to send it? Have your browser send a Do Not Track request and no data will leave this page. It takes an if statement to do this, not a month of engineering work. How is this consistent with the message to not be hostile?

OP here. You have an explicit option to opt out, no gimmicks.
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