The Clickbaitification of Netflix • Hacker News Board

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#191

Post by zug_zug » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 2:10 PM UTC

stonemetal12 wrote: post #184

m12k wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans are instinctively drawn to a lot of things that are really bad for us in significant amounts, because we are designed to fit into an environment where those things are scarce. Sugar, fat, inactivity, "interesting news", outrage. These all steal our attention because that response helped our ancestors survive and pick out these rare but important treats. But in typical human fashion we've now crafted a world th…

Isn't that more because of what they are optimizing for than the fact that they are optimizing? To continue the food analogy engagement is blood sugar levels and they are seeing how high they can crank it. If they optimized for "happier and healthier in the long run" then they would probably loose short term engagement spikes, but have fewer people quitting for health reasons. Basically they could be broccoli if they…

Well with food there are readily available numbers that approximate the long-term-effect of food (e.g. saturated fat, preservatives, vitamins, glycemic index). Does a company really have a way to quantify the emotional impact on its users of a code change? And if it did, would they optimize for that or focus on profit margin?

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#192

Post by aaronax » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 2:11 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #46

darkwizard42 wrote: post #6

I believe Netflix has talked about thumbnail experimentation at length in some of their engineering blogs [1]. To me, it seems perhaps Netflix has figured out a running theme in the author's viewing habits... perhaps the scandalous, soapy stuff is what they keep clicking. Same kind of reaction I get when a guy friend tells me they keep getting ads for women's bikinis or women's underwear in their Instagram ads. It is…

Netflix has literally zero discoverability if you want to go outside what it suggests. If I click stuff that initially seem appealing and then based on seeing decide I dont like it, tough luck. You clicked on it, because you liked name and pic, turned out different thing that you like, but now netflix is forever convinced you want this. I tried to go through documentaries category, because I was in mood for documenta…

I unsubscribed many years ago but occasionally I am tasked by my significant other to find something on Netflix (shared account with her family).

I actually have pretty good luck with searching for random things. Like I searched for "cool" the other day and found something good that would have never shown up otherwise. Seems like a way to substantially bypass the recommendation engine "smarts".

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#193

Post by stonemetal12 » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 2:12 PM UTC

keiferski wrote: post #24

personjerry wrote: post #7

I worked at Facebook for some time, and did a bunch of data work. We had this culture of building something, looking at the results between the experiment groups, and then choosing the statistically more successful one -- i.e. a newsfeed algorithm that had better engagement. This sounds great at first, and certainly is straightforward if you want a promotion. But behind the scenes some of us had this thought that our…

This is the consequence of lack of vision. What is Netflix's long term goal? Ideally, it would be to fund and broadcast fantastic cinema. Yet, I really don't get the impression that contributing to the art form of film is very high up on the metrics chart.

A lack of understanding their own business model? They are a gym, they need to provide enough service to get you to sign up and keep paying, while minimizing your actual use.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#194

Post by matheusmoreira » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 2:14 PM UTC

nsgi wrote: post #56

matheusmoreira wrote: post #3

Would Netflix have to do this if it actually had content people wanted to watch? It's just sad watching it double down on this pulp because every other copyright holder took their ball and went home.

They do, though. They produce a lot of garbage but their best rivals HBO

Their best shows were produced before they stopped caring about quality and started churning out garbage by the truckload.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#195

Post by jerf » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 2:15 PM UTC

soylentcola wrote: post #179

mlac wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was driving to work (a foreign experience) and Joe Walsh was singing about a Maserati. And it made me thing “man, if you grew up in middle America, hearing about a Maserati, you might not even know what it was, let alone that it existed”. Now you can hit Google and see millions of pictures, join the fan club, watch hours of videos and reviews, and become an arm chair Maserati expert. Which is cool, but if sort of t…

I can identify with the guitar example. I started learning to play in high school, right before internet access became common for average folks in the US (I knew some kids who had CompuServe at home and I was aware of some BBSes, but nothing like today). I remember going to the music store where they had a room with sound dampening and a giant pedal board hooked up to an amp. Some friends and I would head over after…

One of the cognitive hacks I suggest running on yourself is when you create something, then later discover that it is in fact something already well known, rather than being disappointed that you didn't invent something new, take it as validation that you were on the right track instead.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#196

Post by monkeybutton » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 2:16 PM UTC

throwawaysea wrote: post #27

monkeybutton wrote: post #5

After reading the article on my phone and hitting the back button to get back here, I'm instead presented with a screen showing more content and pleading me to stay on the site (Keep on reading!). Talk about the kettle calling the pot black.

I was very confused by what was happening when I encountered that screen. Is there a way to block the overriding of back buttons, particularly on smartphones?

Its called back button hijacking. How it works or why such an abusable feature exists is a mystery to me though.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#197

Post by m12k » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 2:17 PM UTC

stonemetal12 wrote: post #184

m12k wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans are instinctively drawn to a lot of things that are really bad for us in significant amounts, because we are designed to fit into an environment where those things are scarce. Sugar, fat, inactivity, "interesting news", outrage. These all steal our attention because that response helped our ancestors survive and pick out these rare but important treats. But in typical human fashion we've now crafted a world th…

Isn't that more because of what they are optimizing for than the fact that they are optimizing? To continue the food analogy engagement is blood sugar levels and they are seeing how high they can crank it. If they optimized for "happier and healthier in the long run" then they would probably loose short term engagement spikes, but have fewer people quitting for health reasons. Basically they could be broccoli if they…

Well, yes, they could certainly try. But "happier and healthier in the long run" is much harder for them to measure than "has responded to instant gratification". It's much harder to A/B test effectively at longer time scales and make the ML model reinforce the right things.

But also, "healthier" might involve creating less engagement "content" for them to feed to others, lowering the network effects of the whole platform. And if they successfully go that route, they open a flank to anyone willing to just keep spiking blood sugar as much as possible (TikTok?). There's a reason McDonalds are still selling Big Macs, and it's not that they don't know what healthy nutrition looks like.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#198

Post by stonemetal12 » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 2:22 PM UTC

ant6n wrote: post #145

UntitledNo4 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe that's really Netflix's business model these days: nobody watches anything, but it's a hassle to cancel the account, so nobody does it, so lets continue frustration our users, maybe they will stop visiting us completely while never really leaving us. Let's look at the bright side though, we're going to end up with a lot of nice thumbnails.

So it's better to have 2 users who pay but don't use the service and kind of hate it than 3 users who like the service and use it a lot?

High use means you need large quantities of high quality content. Low use means you can use a small amount of high quality content as a "loss leader" then back fill with cheap garbage no one is going to watch anyway.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#199

Post by matheusmoreira » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 2:22 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #165

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The position that "theft is free, so anything not given away fails to compete" is not a realistic position to argue with.

Copyright extension is theft by lobbies pressuring the legislative body against the spirit (and original letter) of the law. In this sense, thousands of movies and albums (stuff recorded before 1970) would be public domain now based on the 1901 copyright terms... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Term_Extension_Act

Yeah. They reap all these benefits. When it's OUR turn to exercise our public domain rights, they change the rules of the game. They move the goalposts.

Why respect their rights when they don't respect ours? There is absolutely no reason to recognize their "property" as legitimate.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#200

Post by city41 » Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 2:26 PM UTC

stronglikedan wrote: post #185

omniscient_oce wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spotify's UI feels like it has succumbed to this.

I recently got a very gracious trial period for Youtube Music Premium, so I'm giving it a shot. It's UI is what Spotify used to be, before they crippled it nearly completely for my use cases. I'm seriously considering switching because of this. I'm just hoping that YT Music can replicate Spotify's one killer feature - Spotify Connect - before my trial is over.

I really like Amazon Music. The interface is simple and not gimmicky. Just search for music and play it.