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The rise of user-hostile software

den.dev

111–120 of 303 posts

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#111

Agreed on all points. Interesting to see this: > You can argue that all of this has existed for a very long time, back from the days of all kinds of toolbars and extensions that created multiple levels of address bar nesting in your web browser and taskbar. What I find ironic about the whole situation is, back then it was universally known that those toolbars and extensions are distributed by assholes. The whole soft…

>Something weird happened over the past decade. PR happened. The big players have figured out that if they want to keep misbehaving to make money, they needed people to not fight them. To do so, one amazing tool is to make sure the entire way to speak about the topic is controlled by them. Internet gave us the ability to share more, and we though it would allow us to defend our self better, to make people more aware.…

> And with AI, it's going to get worse.

Cynical prediction: AI influencers, possibly with a hybrid components. Accounts powered by some GPT-esque generator, acting like a real human, shilling various widgets in a naturalistic way. Use humans-in-the-loop to add randomness and natural-ness. Or just AI extending how much marketers can generate.

And/or microinfluencers. Platforms benefitting (otherwise regular) users in some way to adopt some stance. Oh, you said good things about Brawndo, and our fingerprinting was able to trace your social media to your amazon wishlist, which happens to have Brawndo in it? Free pack of brawndo shipped to you from a "mystery admirer". Post a selfie with a logo prominently, CV bots pic it up, get swag. Gossip quickly spreads that if you say nice things about X, or take pics of Y, you get free swag. Suddenly your feed is full of your friends giving a lot of organic-seeming attention to corporate products. It'll put the Sunoco bumper sticker campaign to shame.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#112
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? I didn't know anything about them until this thread, and then there is this comment[0] where one of the devs clearly states: 1. They don't politicise in their group 2. The commenter literally says: "Torch hikes are nothing unusual in Germany and there was no political intent behind it." What's the issue then? Serious question and relevant to the thread because I too would love to see more communitie…

Torch hikes are nothing unusual, but when done by groups of young men with cleanly shaved heads in camouflage outfit it's a pretty clear statement.

Some of them speak German as well!

It's pretty clear that they are Nazis, and use the cover of a group about software to plan the invasion of Poland.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What stacks? I've yet to encounter a popular stack claiming itself as slow and bloated. React? Angular? Electron? There are very slim and fast apps built with those stacks. And if someone built slow Electron app, I'm sure that he would build slow Qt app (not sure if Qt considered slim nowadays). It comes either from lack of experience or lack of focus on performance. And that does not depend on stack.

How slim can you really be when your stack bundles an entire web browser so you can push pixels on the screen? Focusing on performance probably requires running away from such bloat. Remember: 25 years ago we were able to write relatively fast GUI applications. They may have gotten prettier, fancier, and screens have definitely grown larger. Still, computers are now much faster. And with M2 drives, starting a word pr…

IMO it’s the increase in platforms that have pushed people towards a cross-platform solution even though it’s pretty wasteful. In the 90s if I wanted to write an application to target most computer users I would have written a Windows application. Now, depending on the app you need to target MacOS, Linux, web, iOS, Android.

I think people underestimate how much stuff you have to learn to be an effective UI developer on a new stack. There’s layout rules, visual customization, state management, how to organize your effectively for large code based, debugging, accessibility, localization, visual effects. Not to mention how fleshed out the tooling and documentation is for the web stack. Browser dev tools are really good. It’s no wonder people want to reuse all those skills to build UIs.

If even companies like Spotify or Slack think they don’t have the resources to build custom applications per platform, smaller companies or teams won’t either. (I say think because I disagree with their strategy but that’s beside the point). We need a way for people to use their web stack knowledge without requiring a full browser.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#114
But who will pay for this software? Not the author, they’ve made that very clear.

The things they’re railing against fall into two categories:

1. The OS vendor hasn’t built it into the OS.

2. Cost saving measures.

One the developer has little influence over. The other is business physics.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#115
post #70

Just use free software. Stallman was right.

To be fair, most of the examples in the post are about shitty hardware, or shitty mobile experiences. The option of using baseline commodity hardware with no RGB lights is somehow not considered.

Free software is indeed a breath of fresh air.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#117
> they focus on the needs of developers instead of needs of the customers.

Oh this kind of software takes care of the needs of customers alright. Except their true customers are advertisers not users.

This adification of every single item we use every day is tiresome and will hopefully lead to a wide pendulum swing in the opposite direction once consumers truly have had enough. We're not there yet but I think it's coming.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#118

> Want to get data from inside a device onto your computer? Nope, it’s not a mass storage device. MTP exists, Windows and Linux can use it... but OS X still doesn't have a native MTP client.

Vendor lock-in absolutely figures into a hell of a lot of user-hostile tech. Even before Apple went full spyware, I refused to buy iThings on principle, just due to Apple's abuse of its customers and developers (ever-changing connectors, unrepairability, needing to get Apple's blessing, revocable at the drop of a hat, to even write software for them, etc.). Android is very far from perfect, but for now it's at least…

> ever-changing connectors

iDevices have had only two connectors over their life time - the bulky 30-pin lasted thirteen years (2001-2014), and the Lighting connector from 2014 to this day. The iPad Pro has USB-C, so I won't complain there.

Macs also have only used standard connectors since the Intel era.

> revocable at the drop of a hat, to even write software for them

You don't need a paid certificate to write software for your own Mac/iDevices, you don't even need Xcode to create software for Macs (as evidenced by Homebrew/Macports).

Fully agree with you on the rest, though.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#119

This article is globally so true, but there is a major error: It is not "needs of developers" the problem, but the "needs of product manager, marketing, c-level asshole". Like for telemetry, most of the time the business side "can", so they do. And again, for specific app and co, most developer would complain and not like release such user-hostile software but they are forced by business to do it. Like this stupid pr…

OMG the pointless telemetry. I got asked to install some on a project I took over. I checked, and said "there is already telemetry integrated for account XYZ". Nobody knew who had access to XYZ. Like, they install it, and lose it. Its not even fulfilling a useful purpose.

Re: The rise of user-hostile software

#120

> they focus on the needs of developers instead of needs of the customers. Oh this kind of software takes care of the needs of customers alright. Except their true customers are advertisers not users. This adification of every single item we use every day is tiresome and will hopefully lead to a wide pendulum swing in the opposite direction once consumers truly have had enough. We're not there yet but I think it's co…

> I think it's coming

Unless you make it come to yourself by boycotting adware, the fact that adware is everywhere is proof to the contrary.

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